Ds failing Gemorrah..what to do???

DrMom

Tue, Nov 17 2015, 3:45 am

chani8 wrote:

A principal that calls a 7th grader lazy and immature does not understand child psychology and if that is the general mentality in the school, to think kids who struggle with learning are just being lazy and immature, I'd get my kid out of there.

This. How come nobody else commented on this? He was a straight-a student until now. How can anyone call him lazy? And for the principal to say that about one of his students is unacceptable.

shoshanim999

Tue, Nov 17 2015, 10:04 am

Just an idea....when my ds was severely struggling with gemara in 7th grade his tutor would make a copy of the gemara page that they would be learning and he would blow up maybe 6x the actual few lines that ds was working on in class. My husband says that on a standard gemara page there are many miforshim and the gemara thats in the center of the page is surrounded by them. It might help if your ds only had the few lines that his rebbe is learning to focus on and not all the other stuff on the page that might be distracting him and looks overwhelming. It definitely helped my ds. Hatslacha!

chaiz

Tue, Nov 17 2015, 10:22 am

DrMom wrote:

This. How come nobody else commented on this? He was a straight-a student until now. How can anyone call him lazy? And for the principal to say that about one of his students is unacceptable.

It is possible to be a straight A student and still be lazy. Not condoning in any way shape or form the principal's behavior. More going off on a tangent regarding your comment.

Orchid

Tue, Nov 17 2015, 12:34 pm

chaiz wrote:

It is possible to be a straight A student and still be lazy. Not condoning in any way shape or form the principal's behavior. More going off on a tangent regarding your comment.

But why should that be the principal's default explanation for the son?? Candy? That is so patronizing. I'm mad at this principal. OP - go with your gut. You know you're son; you know he needs help. Catch this now before it spirals out of control and ruins him.

bluebird

Tue, Nov 17 2015, 4:38 pm

DrMom wrote:

This. How come nobody else commented on this? He was a straight-a student until now. How can anyone call him lazy?

There are two kinds of straight A students. First, you have the ones that acieve their As through study and hard work. The second group gets As because they find the material easy; they don't need to work to get good grades.

I was the latter kind of student, and when I was confronted with hard subjects I didn't understand I got frustrated and didn't do well, because I had not had to learn how to study previously. It was a tough road to overcome that.

OP, do you think your son might be like that? It didn't occur to me before but it seems to fit and could explain why the principal sees him as lazy. He might need help figuring out how to learn tough subjects.

chaiz

Tue, Nov 17 2015, 4:42 pm

Orchid wrote:

As I wrote, from what is reported, the principal's actions are simply wrong. I was addressing a different point.

amother

Tangerine

Tue, Nov 17 2015, 4:55 pm

op here..today I spoke to the rebbe. I asked him to stop giving DS tests on Gemorrah, he was fine with that..maybe even have the tutor give it to him. His problem with my son is that he feels he does not pay attention in class, always trying to find excuses to leave the classroom. Since I am not there it is hard to assess why he is not paying attenetion (I hear from other parents besides my son that he is very boring) When I started to tell him he has comprehension issues, he became more understanding. I really need to have him evaluated to I get a clear picture of whats going on.. I would love to wait for the BOE to do it but from past experience, it could take a long time and I just don't have it. LAst week the principal came into the room and started asking DS how long he studied, who did he study with and DS was so embarrassed . I don't want him to be picked on..Thanks for your replies I will keep u updated!

November

Tue, Nov 17 2015, 5:00 pm

I have heard a piece of advice that I think would suit you, and that is to call your son's Rebbe frequently to speak with him about how he thinks your son is doing and to add your observations. The squeaky wheel gets the oil, so to speak. With a principal like this one, you definitely want your son to be allied with the Rebbe.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Nov 17 2015, 5:36 pm

bluebird wrote:

This is very true. I was a straight A student in secular subjects. They were easy for me. I daydreamed and never took notes and got straight A anyway. In Hebrew subjects I only got the straight A's up to a certain point. The older I got, the harder it got. Finally in high school I taught myself how to take notes and pay attention in class, and ended up getting over 95% on every single test. All that being said, the principal sounds like an idiot and is way out of line. I am appalled and dismayed that such a person is in chinuch.

amother

Natural

Tue, Nov 17 2015, 5:37 pm

On a practical level...there is a gemora that is published with nekudos that can be very helpful for use in class with the agreement of the rebbe. Also, explore all kinds of visual guides/diagrams to help illustrate the concepts. Is the tutor utilizing these?

Also, are you working closely with the rebbe? It would be helpful to collaborate with the rebbe to see how the gemora curriculum can be modified for him to enable success. For example, have him focus on only a certain percentage of the curriculum which he reviews well with the tutor. Have the rebbe modify the exams to only test on what he is responsible for. The idea is to do everything possible to enable success and build his confidence and build from there. As he continues to do well, you can slowly add on to what he is responsible for.

Also, talk to the rebbe to find out his opinion on specifically what he thinks the breakdown is so you can target your interventions more specifically. Is he paying attention during class or is he Distracted? If he is losing focus, you should ask the rebbe for preferential seating at the front of the class and the rebbe should redirect him with cueing when he drifts off in a nice manner. Is the class too long and he is having trouble sitting through the whole thing? Then the rebbe should encourage walking breaks either in the back of the room or out of the class so he can come back with fresh focus, etc. Is he lacking motivation vecause of the effort involved in learning new material? Then he may benefit from external motivators such as a positive motivational behavior plan with rewards of prizes or other things that motivate him. The idea is to problem solve with the rebbe and with your son and then either modify the curriculum or the environment to enable success.

12rivkyk34

Tue, Nov 17 2015, 8:11 pm

I know there are a lot of good answers I just wanted to add my experience...
Gemara Menukad is a very good idea for a boy who has a hard time concentrating.
I spoke to a social worker who said he has many boys suddenly not doing well in Gemara and that's when parents realize there's an attention problem- it wouldn't hurt to bring him to someone to check it out. If you live in Lakewood you can PM me for someone with experience in this area. Like you said, for kids who glide along other subjects may come easy but Gemara requires in depth thinking and real understanding.
There are tutors who specialize in Gemara. Please make sure you have the right match for your son's needs. Again, I can give you specific names depending where you are located. There's a program in LKWD called Gemara Keys which people are very happy with. Focused on specific skills etc.
Hatzlocha- this is hard & even harder when the principal isn't working with you.

amother

Sapphire

Tue, Nov 17 2015, 8:34 pm

I just discussed this thread with Dh. I have learned gemara myself (went to a school that teaches girls gemara) and we had a discussion on what is the hardest aspect of it. We both agreed that the structure of it is the most difficult to get used to. It's not a narrative written down like in the chumash and it doesn't offer clear cut-to-the-chase statements of halacha like everything that came after it. Gemara is notes scribbled down of conversations that were had, and those conversations took place in a particular structure and order. This takes getting used to. Is your son a visual learner? He may need to mark the page in different colors to follow the conversation. I would get a specialized tutor that understands methodology of gemara, not some bachur who knows how to learn because he's been learning for 10 years. He should make use of graphic organizers, though again, someone needs to teach him how to do this effectively. And I would really consider changing schools. I am not impressed with that principal's attitude, and if he can't figure out why a kid might struggle (other than laziness), I'd question if his staff is appropriately trained to teach the new skills that go along with gemara learning as opposed to teaching the gemara itself.