Are ANY OF YOU Flipping Out That THIS is WW3???!

ora_43

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 12:57 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Its true that jews were forced to leave many middle eastern countries, but ultimately that turned out to be a good thing.

Whether or not it "turned out to be a good thing" isn't relevant to this discussion. You're talking about whether the world was a friendly place for Jews. Half the Jewish world was either forcibly expelled, or forbidden to practice Judaism - that's an automatic "no" on the world as a whole being a peaceful place for Jews, regardless of how things turned out.

Whether Jews regret leaving is also irrelevant. I'm sure that Jews who fled Spain to Egypt weren't sitting around saying, "Gosh, I wish I'd just stayed in Spain and been tortured to death," but that still didn't make it a calm time in Jewish history. It also doesn't mean that relocation wasn't traumatic.

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Also, since the yom kippur war over 40 years ago, Israel has not suffered heavy casualties during war.

40 years ago happened in the last 75 years. And are you forgetting the first Lebanon War?

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Obviously each and every soldier is a big loss but lets not compare it to hundreds of years ago when antisemitic countries would openly force jews to sell their businesses, convert, and outlaw open practice of Judaism.

But see, it's not "hundreds of years ago," because open practice of Judaism was outlawed for much of the Jewish world until the 70s.

And hundreds of years ago, while some countries were openly anti-Semitic, others were great places for Jews to live. I'm not just saying that today isn't as great as you're making it out to be - I'm also saying the past wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

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Fortunately, 99% of jews today have found homes where they are not subject to the abuses of the past.

Yes. This is a wonderful thing. But I don't think it's unreasonable that people are still concerned for their safety, when the abuses of the past were, for many many Jews, just 1-2 generations ago. And the abuses of the present remain low-scale only due to our efforts (and Hashem's protection, of course), and not due to any shortage of hate.

I'm not trying to say that things are horrible in the present day.

ora_43

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 1:16 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Let's appreciate how good we have it now. Because a couple of whacky's are demonstrating on campuses doesn't lesson that we are way better now than we were a few decades ago and I'm grateful for that.

I think maybe we're arguing totally different points. I didn't see this as a "life is bad for Jews right now, today" thread. I see this as a "I'm worried life could get bad for a lot of people sometime very soon" thread.

Two very different things. The question isn't how good things are right now, but how much potential there is for things to get bad.

A few people demonstrating on campuses doesn't make our day-to-day lives worse. Even tens of thousands of people demonstrating on campuses, a growing anti-Israel (and to some extent, anti-Jewish) media bias, and a resurgence in anti-Semitism in much of the world doesn't make our day-to-day lives all that much worse. But it sure does indicate a potential for things to get worse. Especially if we don't take action.

DrMom

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 1:51 pm

shana8470 wrote:

I have never wanted moshiach as much as I want it now. I was afraid of the unknown, what it really means. But through all our challenges and pain and heartache going on in the world, the sicknesses and murders, I realize GOD wants us to cry out and beg for it and change ourselves to the best we can. Now I want nothing more, and pray for it daily excitedly hoping it will come now

I'm hoping we can improve ourselves without thousands of people being beheaded and raped and stabbed and mowed down.

shoshanim999

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 2:25 pm

ora_43 wrote:

Perhaps your right. If we get back to the OP's original question, "Is anyone flipping out that this is ww3", I would say that in the United States the answer is an emphatic NO. Sure we can come on this site and talk about how crazy the world is, but in truth, is anyone really up at night because of the Paris attacks? Is anyone actually stacking up on canned food because they are worried they might be trapped and advised not to leave their house for a week? I didn't think so. The truth is that at the kiddush I went to this past shabbos the topics ranged from people who were desperately worried that it was going to rain and their sheitels would get wet, to another woman was in a complete state of panic in deciding what color her new car lease should be. The nail salon is full of yentas (Including me!) yapping about everything and everything.....except our concern that ww3 is at our door. Is it just my neighborhood? Whats the discussion in your neighborhood? Are people getting ready to flee? I doubt it. Is this the topic at your Kiddushim where you live?

amother

Plum

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 2:32 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Actually, I was up later last night- saying tehillim, and with more emotion than usual. The perakim about our enemies attacking us, about having no allies, about the enemy not being scared anything... The words are clearly coming to life. And for me it's frightening.
As for speaking about it with friends at a kiddish, I don't do that because it's not my place to ruin someone's simcha, or to cause a friend to worry. I don't even share my concerns with my husband. I just daven more.
Oh and btw, before ww2 many Jews were in denial. Many Jewish women refused to escape because they didn't want to leave their fur coats etc behind. Many Jewish people cared more about their businesses than seeing the handwriting on the wall. So just because people are in denial doesn't mean it's not happening

shoshanim999

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 2:48 pm

amother wrote:

I would never suggest that some people aren't really worrying about the current state of world affairs and how it might effect them personally. If you are one of those people then kol hakovod! I just think that people such as yourself are few and far between and that most people are in reality going about their daily lives and are more worried about whether their shoes match their sweater than about ISIS surrounding their city and taking the woman hostage.

zaq

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 6:25 pm

Having observed in my lifetime the Six Day War, Yom Kippur War, Vietnam War (oh, excuse me, Vietnam Conflict), Iraq War, etc. etc. etc., not to mention countless natural disasters that killed astronomical numbers, I have heard people posit many times that this is Gog uMagog. No, this is not WW3 and not even close. (On Gog uMagog I reserve judgment, having no idea whether it will start gradually and escalate, or go off suddenly like an incendiary bomb.)

Safety and security have always been an illusion, appearing to reign for brief periods in different places but never everywhere at once and never for very long. There is always war in some corner of the globe and usually several corners--you just haven't been paying attention to the ones in which your government is not taking a leading role.

What will be, will be; it's ultimately in G-d's hands. We know He will not allow the Jewish people to be wiped off the face of the earth, and this is what counts, is it not?

ora_43

Thu, Nov 19 2015, 2:40 pm

shoshanim999 wrote:

Perhaps your right. If we get back to the OP's original question, "Is anyone flipping out that this is ww3", I would say that in the United States the answer is an emphatic NO.

For me the answer is also no. Matters of faith aside, the western world has way way better equipped armies than ISIS, Hamas, etc.

OTOH, while I don't think we're looking at a conflict similar to the two "world wars," I do think the western world is heading for confrontation with an ideology that's going to be very hard to defeat. And I don't think it's impossible or even all that unlikely that the situation re: terrorism is going to get worse.

So - not panicked, but also not telling myself that what happened in Paris can't happen here or in the states.