Which child's "side" do I take?!!?

FranticFrummie

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 1:09 pm

smss wrote:

Speaking as the child in my family with the most "sensitivities", I say he needs to leave the room if it bothers him.

It's important for him to learn that he shouldn't use frumkeit to ostracize people.

THIS, 100%!

He also needs to learn the difference between halacha, minhag, and chumra.

Why is being around a very young cousin in modest swimwear any different than being around her in modest Shabbos clothes? I've seen Aqua Modesta, and they really do cover everything extremely well, even wet.

Is he OCD about other things in the house? Too much frumkeit can make people get really obsessed about details that are not halacha, and will end up making the rest of his family and friends feel very unhappy with him.

The Happy Wife

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 1:25 pm

I don't think you should take sides. There is room for some give on both sides.

This can be a great opportunity to teach your son that you can't impose your chumras or sensitivities on others, while still being supportive and encouraging of him. I think it's fine if a child wants to choose his own path as long as he is respectful, especially towards his parents.

And you can teach your daughter that's it's nice to be sensitive to the needs of others. Not she must do what he wants, but that it is nice to consider his feelings.

SRS

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 2:17 pm

I did not get an answer to my question yet, but my own advice would be to find solutions, not take sides. I don't want to worry you, but it is possible that you have a child with some slight "issues" which are manifesting through these channels. It could also be a genuine desire to be stringent. Whatever it is making such a young child to take a stance outside the norm of the family, it is best to look for solutions so people can live. Music can be played quietly in a room. He can also leave the room when she is cooking and wants to enjoy music. Both should be able to give to the other.

imasinger

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 2:32 pm

I think it is good that you are givng careful consideration to how you want to handle this issue now, because it is likely to continue in other ways, as your kids get older.

Having a child who is "more frum" than you can bring as many headaches as having a child who wants to do less than you.

My suggestion is to stay in touch with the rebbeim in his school. Make sure they stress how to do things respectfully. Make sure your DS understands that pushing people to accept a stricter interpretation of halacha is not to be undertaken lightly, because it can cause the opposite effect in the target.

I think it depends in part who was here first. If DS walks in, and something he disapproves of is playing, he should politely ask if folks would mind listening to something he can tolerate. If the answer is no, then he leaves the room. OTOH, if DD walks in to where he is doing something and turns on the music, then if he objects, she should go out.

Impress on both kids that derech eretz is paramount. The home belongs to all of you. The more you see of it, the more you will be inclined to help the party that showed it.

Hatzlacha! I'll be curious as to the next installment.

- He criticizes her choice in light reading?
- He requests a level of kashrus beyond your practice?
- He refuses to participate in X event because it's a mixed gender crowd?
- He wants you to do away with even filtered internet in your home?

The list is long.

harriet

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 2:52 pm

imasinger wrote:

He DOES criticize her choice in light reading, he doesn't eat one or two foods (strawberries!) because he doesn't like the way I wash them), he hasn't refused to participate in any events yet and. . . he's not giving up on our filtered internet (yet?)

Yes, I am foreseeing the trouble his can cause us and am beginning to regret his choice of schools. To be fair (to DH and I) we have several other children in the same school and it hasn't been a problem. The other school in town is slightly to the left of us, this one is slightly to the right of us and ... we chose this one Sad

harriet

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 2:56 pm

SRS wrote:

Why is your son so "sensitive" as you call it? I think the why will inform the "how" to live in harmony.

I don't know the answer to this question (not that I haven't given it some thought). He has always been intense in his religious observance. He has made bracha acharonas etc from a siddur only, since he's a very young child. I get compliments about his davening all the time. I don't think it is anxiety/OCD related and have discussed it with his principals as well (and they concur).

He is a sensitive child also in the sense that he is sensitive towards others as well as his own feelings.

He is for the most part a well adjusted and happy kid.

kollel wife

Wed, Nov 18 2015, 3:00 pm

I think each should learn to be sensitive to the other.

I think it teaches HIM good middos if YOU respect him and what he wants, even if your family isn't makpid on something. Teaching all children to respect the others needs and wants. I need the shower now because ...

In some cases you can find a Rav he respects that you can ask questions to - so that let's say the strawberries - he can ask his shailos and then follow accordingly - so they'll be less stress.

Simple1

Thu, Nov 19 2015, 11:09 am

I agree with Zahava (and some others) where something involving sound should be agreed upon, religious or not.

I also feel that he is going to be confused if you don't respect his sensitivities. Avoiding non Jewish music is not considered extreme in some parts, and it seems like you sent in him to such a yeshiva. In that case, I can sympathize with his discomfort listening to these things. You seem to have a very good boy that others would envy, but you have to determine if that's how you want to raise him.

At the same time you can teach him to be tolerant of others - particularly when it doesn't affect him.

(And I'm not saying this from a righteous place - I'm somewhat open-minded about what goes on in my own house.)

harriet

Thu, Nov 19 2015, 12:35 pm

Simple1 wrote:

Just to clarify, the "non jewish music" that we listen to consists of maccabeats (they sing non Jewish songs) and disney movie music (ie let it go from frozen). No one is turning on the radio and listening to pop or other contemporary music like that. While presumably his school frowns on ANY non jewish music, I'd say the majority of the kids in the school DO listen to maccabeats and "let it go" type music.

animeme

Thu, Nov 19 2015, 1:05 pm

harriet wrote:

While I hear your point, "Let it go" and most Disney music is kol isha. Some men rely on being allowed to listen if you don't see the singer, but many/most do not.

I'm not a fan of the values in that song, but that's another story.