Compiling a list of Gedolim and professions

ruby slippers

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 10:37 am

Trying to compile a list for ds of Gedolim and what they studied outside of Torah. Off the top of my head, reb yehudah hanasi had a vineyard, Rashi did something with wine, rambam and ramban were both doctors and the Lubavitcher Rebbi had some kind of incredible engineering degree (I think) Can you add to my list.

bigsis144

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 10:47 am

I don't think it was his profession, but the Ralbag wrote about mathematics (I believe it was trigonometry). I learned about Gersonides in a History of Mathematics class I took in college. There's a crater named Rabbi Levi on the moon named after him (many lunar features are named for scientists and explorers. There's also one named Abenezra due to his works on astronomy and calendars).

PinkFridge

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 10:53 am

eema1 wrote:

Ah, the Rebbe went to the Sorbonne, but did he use any degrees professionally? That wouldn't fit in to your thread's theme, then.

Iymnok

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 10:57 am

Many gedolim read scientific literature in the bathroom.

m in Israel

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 11:24 am

I'm not sure what your point is, but I would be curious if you could find ANY gedolim in the past 100 years who actively worked in any profession other than one related to Torah (I.e. chinuch, Rabbanus, kiruv, etc.)

The most recent one I can think of was the Chofetz Chaim, who owned a store (which IIRC was mostly run by his wife, and was only kept open for part of the day -- just to make enough to meet his basic needs), and sold his seforim for parnassah.

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 12:14 pm

Do you mean to limit it to "gedolim"?

There's Rabbi/Dr. Twersky who's a psychiatrist. I don't know if he counts as a gadol, but he's definitely a talmid chacham and professional.

PinkFridge

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 12:34 pm

kb wrote:

Do you mean to limit it to "gedolim"?

There's Rabbi/Dr. Twersky who's a psychiatrist. I don't know if he counts as a gadol, but he's definitely a talmid chacham and professional.

There are a lot of serious talmidei chachamim who have 9-5 jobs.

water_bear88

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 12:48 pm

I think Rav Steinzaltz has degrees in Biology and Chemistry.

ruby slippers

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 12:57 pm

op here- I'll take any and all kinds of responses. ds is under the impression that any secular studies is a waste of his torah learning time and I want to show him the importance of secular studies as it is used for the learning of Torah- exactly the types of examples you are giving me- including the one about Rabbi Twerski. These men used their degrees to learn and do great things. Please don't think I am saying anything negative about learning Torah or kollel life etc. I just want ds to understand there is math, science, literature all tied up in Torah as well. Of course I am just his mom so, what do I know.....
also, I had heard that the Rebbe used created a patent used by the army/navy etc. and that helped get him started with all the tzedkah he was able to give out- Is that correct?

GetReal

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 1:23 pm

The Lubavitcher rebbe worked for the us navy.

blossoming

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 2:13 pm

Iymnok wrote:

Many gedolim read scientific literature in the bathroom.

Or psycology. I know of one, but I don't think I should mention who.

OOTBubby

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 2:43 pm

The Vilna Gaon did something with geometry -- Kramer's theorem is named for him.

ruby slippers

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 2:47 pm

These are great- keep 'em coming!

water_bear88

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 3:02 pm

Regarding Rav Steinzaltz- open a volume of his gemara and look at how much he adds in the margins- linguistic notes, short biographies of various people mentioned in the gemara, botanical/zoological information about various plants and animals mentioned in the gemara. That's what I got just now from a quick glance through Masechet Brachot. Rav Steinzaltz clearly has studied many "secular" realms that have enhanced his learning and that of everyone who now uses his books.

Volunteer

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 3:39 pm

Hillel was a carpenter, Shammai was an architect or surveyor. Rav Pappa was a brewer. Rabbi Yehoshua (the one Rabban Gamliel insulted) was a blacksmith. Shmuel (from the Gemara) was a doctor. Arbarbanel was the Spanish king Ferdinand's finance minister. Rabbi ben Attar (Oh Hachaim) embroidered fancey clothes with silver and gold thread.

I think that before the Renaissance, it was unusual for rabbis to be paid for being rabbis. Working or having a business of some kind was the norm.

cnc

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 6:40 pm

blossoming wrote:

Or psycology. I know of one, but I don't think I should mention who.

There are many. IIRC the Kitzur states that one should read science books in the bathroom to avoid having Torah thoughts.

Volunteer

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 8:43 pm

From dh: the chelban ( contemporary) owns a dairy company in Israel, Samuel Hanagid was the advisor to the vizier in Spain, sforno was a doctor, arizal (rabbi y. Luria) was a spice dealer, rav Moshe chaim luzzato was a gem cutter and a playwright.

PinkFridge

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 8:44 pm

eema1 wrote:

Ah. So talking about the talmid chochom who may well have written many sefarim but has a 9-5 job is not what he wants to hear now.
There are several approaches to take:
- That of Rav Gifter, zt"l, who felt that if one is taking the time to do this, one should do it well, and use it to be able to express oneself well. (I think I'm getting this right.)
- He may be in a yeshiva in which some boys have dropped out of English. Yes, this is done, and not just by any of the boys. It's a bit controversial and not something I'm enamored of. He may wish to do this. You can put your foot down, and assure him that you will support his growth in Torah to the nth degree, but you want him to get a h.s. diploma. And as long as he's doing it... see point 1.
- Endorse him for his good behavior, his showing up, his making an effort in secular subjects even if he could do better. No, this is not an answer for him, but just something nice you can do for him. Really good, excellent boys do make the effort. And respectful behavior in both AM and PM will earn him the respect of his rebbeim and menahel, as well as the gratitude of his PM teachers.
- To continue this, and also connected to point 1, doing this is is probably the best thing for his neshama from a mussar point of view. He will not be compartmentalized but will be a mensch who puts in the effort 24/7.

Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread, but there does seem to be a subtext here Wink

yogabird

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 9:00 pm

Legend has it the baal shem tov was a potter.

seeker

Mon, Nov 23 2015, 9:35 pm

blossoming wrote:

Or psycology. I know of one, but I don't think I should mention who.

See, this is the whole problem. Why on earth should anyone even THINK it would be embarrassing for a rabbi to be learning about the world? Mad