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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Our Challenging Children (gifted, ADHD, sensitive, defiant)
Rabbis, Professionals, MD's AGAINST medicating for ADHD?
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amother
Honeydew


 

Post Tue, Nov 24 2015, 9:09 pm
Please tell me about Rabbis and Doctors that are AGAINST medicating for ADHD, that are NOT likely to recommend special ed schools or medicine.

Rabbis, Doctors and other professionals that believe in including these children in the general education setting, and helping them without medication.
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amother
Lilac


 

Post Tue, Nov 24 2015, 10:21 pm
I don't know any specific professionals, but I do know that many psychologists argue that therapy is effective enough in many cases. Research has shown that in many cases ADHD can be treated with CBT therapy. Of course some cases require medication, but before jumping to that, a psychologist may evaluate if a patient can be treated exclusively with therapy and no medication.
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Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Nov 24 2015, 11:36 pm
a lot of ADHD can be treated with fish oil, vitamins, OT, Social Skills training, etc.
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 1:33 am
but a lot of times medication can be life saving to keep kids in a school setting and lead a normal life

I am a mother of a number of ADHD children and married to a ADHD spouse.
I was very against medication and my first suffered tremendously and only years later when he was already in a special school as he couldn't do a regular schedule did we agree to try medication - it's a number of years and it's a lifesaver

with my younger kids I started them as soon as I saw it was needed and it makes a huge difference

You have to think what is really best for the child
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amother
Peach


 

Post Wed, Nov 25 2015, 8:40 am
You can't do nothing if your child needs help then you need to help them. Getting into therapy is a good start you can try vitimens and see if that helps. You can get tutors and see if that help improve his school work. And if he is still stuggling then try the med you can do low doses not crazy high zombie doses. If school is still hard and he can't do it maybe a special ed school is the way to go keep it in the back of your head but encourage him to do his best and if it comes down to it be happy that you are doing the right thing for him. Kepping a unmedicated in a reg ed school just without any kind of help will just hurt your child.
Even if you medicate therapy is so important they need to learn why the feel the way they do and how to control themselfs
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Peanut2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 12:39 am
Research indicates that the best way to manage ADHD is with medication AND behavioral intervention. I recommend pursuing both.

I get how difficult it is to do that because it's difficult for me to even think of medicating my very ADHD child. It's so tough. But it really helps kids. Maybe talk to a teacher who has seen medicated and unmedicated kids in the classroom?
There are other things you can do, and if you don't want to start with medication look into giving lots of fish oil and doing behavioral stuff at home with your kid and getting professional guidance for it with your kid.

No one can force you to give your child medication and if you feel pressured by teachers, doctors, whoever, and the diagnosis is very recent, do try to find allies who have a more holistic approach. Not anti meds, but pro big picture. If the diagnosis has been around for a while then it may be time to pursue this as well.

I'm happy to talk more if you want!
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 2:48 am
Peanut2 wrote:
Not anti meds, but pro big picture.

THIS.

I am all for trying other things, and in many cases that may do the trick. But I think it is so wrong to take sides on this and limit yourself to some blanket philosophy. There is a reason why these medications exist. There are also good reasons why people save them for a last resort. But they do have their place and anyone who rejects them 100% without looking at the total picture, IMVHO, is a quack.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 7:34 am
OP, why are you dead set against medication?

If your DC broke a leg, I'd assume you would want a doctor to put a cast on it?

How is this different, in your opinion? Are you worried about stigma? Long term effects and safety? Overprescription?
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Peanut2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 10:00 am
I want to emphasize that medication without behavioral intervention isn't as effective as doing both. And behavioral intervention alone works, just not as well as with meds (or even meds alone). So it's really important to see a child psychologist and come up with a plan that works for your kid. I also recommend reading good books on raising children, not even necessarily ones on ADHD. Even if you are the most amazing mom - like me Smile - they really help. I like ones that aren't too wordy because I just don't have the time, and that are straight and to the point.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 2:54 pm
What behavioral intervention do you recommend?
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amother
cornflower


 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 3:09 pm
The well known Askan , Avi Fishoff of Twisted Parenting, says that meds definitely help SOME kids and for those kids, meds are a miracle/life saver.

But for the kids that go from one medication to another, from one psychiatrist to another, who have parents who insist on getting their kid to sit in a classroom, no matter what it takes, and no matter how unhappy the kid is, many of those kids become not themselves.

The meds damage the child's brain for the rest of the kids life. The kids suffer from low self esteem, knowing the parents/teachers want to "change" them and make them "normal". Fishoff says he sees too many of these kids Off The Derech, miserable and on heavy drugs, a few years later. Hes seen it happen tooooooooo many times, starting with meds for those conditions mentioned.

Not easy, because everyone wants their kid in a school, and isnt ready to relocate OOT where class size might be smaller.. and a child "who makes trouble" would possibly get more attention... but its a risk parents take. In many cases parents regret giving meds big-time.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 3:48 pm
Well that's an attitude problem, not a medication problem. A serious one.
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amother
Silver


 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 4:36 pm
amother wrote:
The well known Askan , Avi Fishoff of Twisted Parenting, says that meds definitely help SOME kids and for those kids, meds are a miracle/life saver.

But for the kids that go from one medication to another, from one psychiatrist to another, who have parents who insist on getting their kid to sit in a classroom, no matter what it takes, and no matter how unhappy the kid is, many of those kids become not themselves.

The meds damage the child's brain for the rest of the kids life. The kids suffer from low self esteem, knowing the parents/teachers want to "change" them and make them "normal". Fishoff says he sees too many of these kids Off The Derech, miserable and on heavy drugs, a few years later. Hes seen it happen tooooooooo many times, starting with meds for those conditions mentioned.

Not easy, because everyone wants their kid in a school, and isnt ready to relocate OOT where class size might be smaller.. and a child "who makes trouble" would possibly get more attention... but its a risk parents take. In many cases parents regret giving meds big-time.


Sorry, but this is ridiculous. There is no reason to go from one psychiatrist to another, from one drug to another. The whole point is to stabilize the child's life early on with medication and classroom/ Behavioral support so he does not have that instability that you describe who does that??? Maybe unstable parents, and that is a whole problem in and of itself. The goal is to give your child a stable life with success in and out of the classroom. And the parents have to stay strong and consistent throughout. I have only seen success with this method, and research supports this.
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Peanut2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 5:24 pm
amother wrote:
What behavioral intervention do you recommend?
.

I'm not a psychologist and I may need to think more about this, but positive reinforcement and scheduling/routine are the big two in my mind.

Positive reinforcement is sometimes fine with all sorts of stickers and charts and rewards, and that works well for some kids. But it basically involves rewarding good behavior, which for everyone means 'catching your child being good." It may seem obvious but the thing is about tweaking our responses to make sure we are doing the best job rewarding the behavior we really want. Some of the advice for ADHD kids and parents is very chart and sticker and real reward focused and I don't like that as much and it is also very unhelpful for my child, who is just too impulsive to delay that much gratification. So I'm working really hard and describing her good behavior when I see it "oh Debbie you are so patient and kind letting your sister go on the swing first." This also involves making sure you aren't reinforcing behavior you don't want - like giving attention to bad behavior.

My child does really well win writing a list (or drawing for younger kids) of like 4 things she has to do, eg eat food, get dressed, brush teeth, then play. The last one being awesome but not calling it a reward is a nifty trick. She then does it and checks it off, instead of me shouting at her and reminding her and all the while she is trying to play. It's just fantastic. When she's done brushing her teeth she goes and checks it off and then runs to get dressed. It's like a miracle in my life.
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Peanut2




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 5:28 pm
I said I love short books and I mean it!
I like Supernanny- how to get the best from your children by Jo Frost
Don't shoot the dog- the new art of teaching and training by Karen Pryor (I found that when the sticker charts I was told to use, by a professional, just created a tantrum monster. This is by a dolphin trainer and it just fit my needs better - but it's not a traditional kid raising books. It's hardcore positive reinforcement, and I used it to come up with my own ideas.)

Both are very short.

Calmer, easier, happier parenting by Noel Janis-Norton is great, too. Not as short.
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amother
cornflower


 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 6:08 pm
amother wrote:
Sorry, but this is ridiculous. There is no reason to go from one psychiatrist to another, from one drug to another.


Have you ever dealt with the agency that refers psychiatrists- Relief?

Mental issues arent like physical issues. Sometimes people are lucky and the first drug works, but sometimes theyre not so lucky and its a long journey, one drug doesnt work and you have to try another and another and another. Sometimes none work.
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amother
White


 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 6:13 pm
My 15 yr old son was having trouble in yeshiva and we were referred to Relief. The intake guy asked us a list of default questions and confidently exclaimed ADHD! He offered us medication "under the counter" and even went as far as to say my son doesn't need to see a doctor. He (that guy) has access to a dr that would prescribe the meds just by talking to us.

Well, we ran out of there as fast as our legs could carry us. We later saw a different therapist, who spoke to us for an hour, and many many hours to DS. No meds, no doctors and two yrs later, ds is a top boy, great learner, great social guy.

He NEVER had ADHD. He had other troubles that were BH helped through the good shliach therapist.

I still cringe when I think what could've been had we followed thru with that guy!
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amother
Silver


 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 6:16 pm
amother wrote:
Have you ever dealt with the agency that refers psychiatrists- Relief?

Mental issues arent like physical issues. Sometimes people are lucky and the first drug works, but sometimes theyre not so lucky and its a long journey, one drug doesnt work and you have to try another and another and another. Sometimes none work.


Actually, yes. They recommended an excellent psychiatrist who we are still working with 8 years later with great success.
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amother
Silver


 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 6:19 pm
amother wrote:
My 15 yr old son was having trouble in yeshiva and we were referred to Relief. The intake guy asked us a list of default questions and confidently exclaimed ADHD! He offered us medication "under the counter" and even went as far as to say my son doesn't need to see a doctor. He (that guy) has access to a dr that would prescribe the meds just by talking to us.

Well, we ran out of there as fast as our legs could carry us. We later saw a different therapist, who spoke to us for an hour, and many many hours to DS. No meds, no doctors and two yrs later, ds is a top boy, great learner, great social guy.

He NEVER had ADHD. He had other troubles that were BH helped through the good shliach therapist.

I still cringe when I think what could've been had we followed thru with that guy!


Sorry, your story is extremely strange and hard to believe. I have dealt extensively with Relief and never has anyone offered a diagnosis, they are strictly referrals. Additionally, all of their psychiatrists are top and above board. Your story is bizarre.
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amother
Pink


 

Post Sun, Jan 03 2016, 6:45 pm
I tried meds with my ADHD son and they were a disaster. He has a very sensitive body and had some pretty extreme reactions, even on the lowest dose of a pretty mild medication.

In addition, long term use of ADHD meds are linked with depression and suicide in teens.

Not saying I won't pursue it, but I'm trying all other avenues first- intwnsive OT, diet, etc.

There are both sides to the coin.
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