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Forum -> Household Management -> Finances
He wants to borrow money.



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amother
Jetblack


 

Post Wed, Dec 16 2015, 8:59 pm
The married irresponsible son of my friend wants to borrow money. He is in debt so the money would likely never be repaid back. When he has money, he spends it lavishly rather than repay what he owes. OTOH he is presumably disparate to come to me as we are not close. He has burned through a number of people who have lent him money and/or cosigned for him. I feel guilty because I can afford to give away the money, but is it only by reaching bottom that he has a chance to change? I would love to do something to help him. Any ideas?
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mirror




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 16 2015, 9:03 pm
If he spends it lavishly, then you are not doing him any favors by lending him money. Someone needs to sit down with him and give him a notebook and make a list of how much money he had and how much he spent and where it all went. Then ask him item by item if it was a need or a want.
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TwinsMommy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 16 2015, 9:12 pm
and maybe you can volunteer to sit with him for an hour and look at job offers online and help him apply. or help him list some of his possessions on ebay/ craigslist. That would be far more of a help to him than to continue on the path he's on.
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Leahh




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 16 2015, 9:14 pm
Offer to pay a bill as a one time thing. Make the check payable to the utility company or his lanlord. If he's irresponsible don't give him free money to spend as he wishes.
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justforfun87




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Dec 16 2015, 9:20 pm
OMG! No way! Do not enable this terrible behavior. Like an addict, you need to not make the disease so accessible. You say you are not close so you are not emotionally involved. The fact that he comes to an acquaintance shows how bad it has gotten. The best thing you can do for this man is to say no. He clearly needs to be told no by a few more people in order to gain some clarity. Hopefully he will hit rock bottom and realize he needs to find a way out of this financial mess. Spending less and increasing income. If there are any budgeting programs in your community feel free to give him the number.
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baby12x




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 3:24 am
Instead of lending him money, maybe offer to pay for a money management course or some sort of personal finance counseling.
I know that in the christian world there is the Dave Ramsey classes, not sure what is available in the Jewish world.
This will help him dig himself out of his whole and get his life back on track instead of enabling him
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scrltfr




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 3:51 am
baby12x wrote:
Instead of lending him money, maybe offer to pay for a money management course or some sort of personal finance counseling.
I know that in the christian world there is the Dave Ramsey classes, not sure what is available in the Jewish world.
This will help him dig himself out of his whole and get his life back on track instead of enabling him


The Christian world? Oy.
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amother
Jetblack


 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 4:00 am
He has a great job. He loses them frequently, but he always lands another. He pays very high rent because no one wants to rent to him at a normal rate. The same is true of his car lease. He travels, goes out to eat and is always dressed the finest. It is apparent to everyone but himself that his life is a deck of cards.

He isn't interested in advice, and he was already homeless living with friends and he didn't change.

Would you tell your friend her son came to you? Would it make a difference if you knew that your friend was previously worried about him going OTD?
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 4:03 am
justforfun87 wrote:
OMG! No way! Do not enable this terrible behavior. Like an addict, you need to not make the disease so accessible. You say you are not close so you are not emotionally involved. The fact that he comes to an acquaintance shows how bad it has gotten. The best thing you can do for this man is to say no. He clearly needs to be told no by a few more people in order to gain some clarity. Hopefully he will hit rock bottom and realize he needs to find a way out of this financial mess. Spending less and increasing income. If there are any budgeting programs in your community feel free to give him the number.


This, this.

I'm tempted to say that if you want to spend money to help him, offer to your friend (his mother) to help fund her codependency work.

Don't pay his bills. Don't give him a "loan." If you want to help him directly, I like the suggestion of giving him some contact information for organizations that help people with money management a local rav might have those numbers, or know where to get them).
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vicki




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 4:32 am
Debt
Financial Irresponsibility
Living out of your Means
Losing Jobs Frequently
Flirting with OTD Behavior
Not interested in advice

The problem is bigger than whether you should or should not give/lend him money. I would not, but it won't matter one iota.

He needs therapy.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 5:23 am
vicki wrote:
Debt
Financial Irresponsibility
Living out of your Means
Losing Jobs Frequently
Flirting with OTD Behavior
Not interested in advice

The problem is bigger than whether you should or should not give/lend him money. I would not, but it won't matter one iota.

He needs therapy.


THIS. Do NOT give money, you are not helping him! Give him the number of some debt consolidators, and then walk away. He needs to grow up.
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amother
Slateblue


 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 5:29 am
I could be your friend.
Besides the OTD thing it could be my kid.
I wouldn't want you to give him money or anyone else to.
I'd want him to hit rock bottom & agree to get help,
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 7:10 am
Why would you even consider giving him money?

There are so many worthier needier people who would use any spare money you have for important stuff like food or clothing basics.

And why do you want to enable this self destructive cycle. His life is a mess but he won't reach rock bottom until he has to and change is only possible when there is no alternative so changing is the only option.

I know for any addiction or pattern of bad behavior one has to feel deep down in one's kishkes (I.e. Fully internalize) that one can't go on in the same way and so however difficult or painful changing is, one will do it. Enabling makes it easier for a person to not take the difficult steps of changing.

Again, and no disrespect to the OP, why are you even asking such a question. You have no emotional ties to him or anyone else impacted by his behavior.
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sourstix




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 7:32 am
I think op got the answer she needed. hashem should help her make the right decision. I feel bad for the guy. doesnt he realize this lifestyle is going to lead him nowhere? so sorry. dont give in op. you wont be helping him. I am guessing hes not married or this wouldnt stand a chance.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 8:07 am
Don't be an enabler. Tell him to read Dave Ramsey's books.

Whomever wrote "The Christian world? Oy." What in the world does that mean? There are many Christian Churches/Denominations that are leaders in "ministering" about fiscal responsibility. That isn't oy. The only oy here is just how many people in our own communities are enablers in the name of chessed and that we are only starting to wake up and smell the coffee.
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twogees




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 8:26 am
There is also youneedabudget.com (which I use) to check out. there are free webinars as well as a trial period for the software. You can pm me for any info or if you need help

Last edited by twogees on Thu, Dec 17 2015, 8:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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amother
Olive


 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 8:40 am
scrltfr wrote:
The Christian world? Oy.


Dave Ramsey happens to be Christian but his system has helped many come out from under their debts. Ignore any religious comments he makes because the rest is worth it and unlike any other system out there. I have not BH needed his system but other frum families have. I have used the ideas he espouses so that I don't fall into debt and can try to save.
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SRS




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Dec 17 2015, 9:08 am
Dave Ramsey's main financial approach is from Mishlei! I agree with the advise to just hear him out. It is worth your time whether you are in debt, just enjoy learning about financial management, or are in the position as an advice giver. You don't have to agree with his every piece of advice, but there is so much to be gained.
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