Bris protocols | Imamother

amother

Beige

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 6:59 pm

B"h I became a grandmother to a grandson after several girls.
It is the other sides first grandson also.
My question is who pays for everything and who gets what kibud.
If the other side is doing the paying could I tell as many people that I want or do I have to ask them how many I could tell.
They just kind of told us they are taking everything because they are paying and didn't give us any option.

amother

Denim

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 8:26 pm

amother wrote:

The parents give out the kibudim, NOT the grandparents.

The golden rule: s/he who provides the gold sets the rules. So I would expect the grandparents to have expectations in that regard.

amother

Coral

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 8:39 pm

When we made our first bris my parents and inlaws split the cost of the caterer and hall. My husband gave out all the kibudim. Neither my parents, nor in laws nor my grandparents who are bh alive and we said a word to us about the name or kibudim. I suppose if someone is shelling out cash they do have some sort of right to put in a request with kibudim. As far as inviting people you can not just invite whoever. It is not directly your simcha and you.are not paying. They.should ask you how many people you plan on having if not .ask them directly how many can you have. mazel tov. much nachas from your grandson

amother

Beige

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 8:52 pm

So before I had time to think because I was busy with my DD and shalom zachor the other side got the hall and told their friends where the bris will be.
We never spoke about it they just told us where it will be and they told us that because the other side is paying my DD FIL is getting sandek and other kibudim.
They never asked how many people I told and frankly I didn't tell that many because I feel more like a guest than a grandparent.

amother

Coral

Tue, Dec 22 2015, 9:01 pm

Just want to clarify that you are not wrong for being upset about kibudim. The fact that the paying side gets more is understandable but both sides should be getting. Do you know if your sil took the kibudim for his family.cuz they are paying or did his parents demand them. Either way you.are right for not sticking your nose in and demanding anything.

the world's best mom

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 3:47 am

Giving out the Kibudim is the job of the baby's parents. It's their choice completely, but if one side offers to pay for the Bris, they might choose to give them more/better Kibudim.

out-of-towner

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 3:51 am

Generally the Kibbud of Sandek for the first boy in the family is given to the paternal grandfather. My mother told me that she expected my FIL to be Sandek at our sons Bris. It was actually my husband who insisted that my grandfather do it.

m in Israel

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 4:04 am

out-of-towner wrote:

This probably depends very much on your circles, as I have 4 boys, BH and never heard this. In my circles it is actually quite common to give the Kibbud of Sandek to the Rosh Hayeshiva of the baby's father, not to either grandparent, which is what we did -- we gave my husband's RY sandek for our bechor.

For our next son we were naming after my FIL's father, and therefore decided to give him krias shem and gave my father sandek, so my FIL didn't end up getting sandek until the 3rd bris.

I definitely know of many cases were if there are BH living great-grandparents of the baby (I.e. grandparents of the baby's parents), they were given it over the grandparents, I guess with the idea of giving kavod to the older generation.

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 5:13 am

My parents just paid for and organized one of my siblings brissim. My father did not get sandek (and didn't expect it) and the other side invited almost the same amount of people they did.
The kibbudim shoul absoloitely be decided by the parents of the baby. It's so nice for grandparents to help make a Bris but that doesn't entitle them to sandek.

amother

Wine

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 6:41 am

I don't get it. The side paying for the bris is only paying to get kibbudim?? If this happened to me I would say thank you but no thank you for paying for my simcha. Parents and only parents of the baby should be giving out the kibbudim. I understand discussing how many guests to invite with the other side as the caterer needs to know how much food to prepare.

spring13

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 6:59 am

I don't understand the "it's not really your simcha if you're not paying" comment above. It ain't the money that determines who's celebrating here, otherwise why bother having the parents of the baby come at all? Rich Bubby and Rich Zaidy can kidnap the baby and do what they want for a few hours, eh? I know people like to throw their money around in situations like this so that they can get things their own way, but it's actually HORRIBLE MIDDOS to do that.

I get giving one sandek because he paid for it, but expecting the other side not to invite a fair share of guests is just mean.

Ema of 5

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 7:03 am

amother wrote:

I don't know how it works with other people, but we paid for our own brisim, and chose our own kibudim.

Ema of 5

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 7:04 am

amother wrote:

The golden rule: s/he who provides the gold sets the rules. So I would expect the grandparents to have expectations in that regard.

It's very nice to have expectations, but not all expectations are grounded in reality.

Ema of 5

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 7:15 am

spring13 wrote:

I think you misunderstood. It sounds to me like OP feels like a guest rather than someone celebrating a simcha because she hasn't been involved in anything and is just being told what to do. I don't think it's about the money at all, but rather about being made to feel like an outsider.
I don't understand assuming that you are going to get a kibud at someone else's simcha because you paid. It's not your simcha, it's theirs!! And I don't think OP said she can't invite, I think she said that there was just no discussion about it at all.

amother

Lavender

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 8:37 am

As far as sandek, there is a halacha. For kibbud av, the paternal grandfather is sandek for the first born boy. If parents want to give to someone else, they are supposed to first ask permission of the paternal grandfather.

chocolatecake

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 8:46 am

amother wrote:

My first born son was my parents first grandson. My inlaws already had grandsons and my father in law was already sandek at a grandsons bris. I bh have a grandfather who is alive and well and lives local. My son was also my grandfathers first great grandson. My husband offered sandek to my father who said thank you but please offer it to zaidy. My grandfather ended up being sandek. My husband actually told me that he feels that my grandfather should be the sandek but he also feels that he has to offer it to my father but probably my father will say offer it to zaidy and thats exactly what happened Smile

amother

Cerulean

Wed, Dec 23 2015, 9:07 am

amother wrote:

My FIL is a rav. When we had our first son, he said immediately we should give it to my father. My in-laws have many grandchildren and this was my parent's first (plus we named after my father's father). It meant so much to me that he said it immediately and it was so meaningful to my parents. It made everything so much more relaxed.

I also paid for our own brissim and chose our own kibbudim, but that doesn't help OP because that isn't how it is working in their situation. Sounds like in-laws are paying and choosing.

I would ask for a number that you can invite, unless you want to want to call up and offer to split it.

(BTW you don't invite to a bris, I was told if someone is invited they must attend, but if they are informed of the event then they don't have to, I'm not sure what the source of this is).