Making a wedding and supporting a young couple

Sarale Licht1

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 1:54 am

Hi all! Our oldest child is dating a boy and we're at the point where $ is being discussed. The parents are asking for $2,000 a month. We cannot afford this, and we decided to counteroffer $1,500 plus incidentals. We can't really afford that either, but maybe if we ask our parents for help, we could manage. My husband doesn't want the $ to be an obstacle for the shidduch, but I say if that's a deal breaker, then goodbye and good riddance! Also, if we do come up with the $1,500, we will have to make THE cheapest possible wedding. So, my questions are:1-is it reasonable to ask for $2,000 a month and 2-where can we make the cheapest possible wedding in Brooklyn if we can keep it down to 300 people?

amother

Firebrick

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 1:57 am

Sarale Licht1 wrote:

How many years are you being asked to support?
What is the couple's plans for coming up with the rest of the money they will need each month?
What are the couple's plans for once the period of support is over?
Are you being asked to cover the cost of the entire wedding?

Sarale Licht1

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 2:01 am

My daughter should be finishing her educational degree this summer, and could possibly start working in her field in September. But what if she doesn't find a job right away? Once she's working, I'm assuming they'll still need financial support, but a lot less. The boy has no definite plans, he's learning, but he seems to have some "marketable skills" for when the time comes. I was hoping they could live on the $1,500 if they take a basement apartment. I assume the burden of the wedding costs would be almost entirely on us, if not entirely.

Last edited by Sarale Licht1 on Wed, Dec 30 2015, 2:03 am; edited 1 time in total

amother

Firebrick

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 2:02 am

Sarale Licht1 wrote:

This all needs to be discussed. Assumptions can lead to hard feelings all around.

amother

Firebrick

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 2:11 am

There is a takana hall in Williamsburg called pardes feiga I believe.
Also torah vyira in Boro Park might be an option.

It's not realistic for a couple to live on $1,500 unless there is some other form of financial assistance. (That doesn't necessarily mean you need to provide more but realistic options need to be discussed. Including what each party sees as standard of living.) Basement apartments are not cheap. And what happens when babies come. Government programs?

Sarale Licht1

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 2:18 am

I am assuming they will at least be on food stamps. I think it's possible to rent a basement apartment for around $1,000 a month. If we get to the point of making a wedding, we would prefer Boro park over Williamsburg if possible, so we'll check out Torah Viyirah. And I hope to be mostly off the hook by the time babies would come, as I hope my daughter would be working by then.
Does anyone else think it's insane that we're being pressured this way? I have a number of other children who also have needs. I'm thinking of kicking my son out of Bais medrash to save on the $7,000 a year tuition. That still leaves us with a yearly $35,000 tuition bill.

amother

Oak

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 2:34 am

I think this is considered normal for someone who is American-Yeshivish who wants to marry a boy in Kollel. I'm not saying you have to subscribe to it, but know that very possibly you will have to look slightly outside of your circles (if your circle has couples w/ the husband learning in BMG).

I would find out what's normal in your circle before saying no to these people just b/c of the money. You're likely to hear the same thing about the next 5 boys unless you look out-of-the-box.

And no, in a circle where this is the normal thing to do, I don't think it reflects badly on the boy or his family. But again, you need to find out what's normal.

Sarale Licht1

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 2:47 am

My daughter has a friend who said this is normal in "our" circles. But we absolutely cannot afford this, and at this point I'm so worried about the $ that I'd rather sseeee my daughter an older single than agree to this. If he boy doesn't care enough for my daughter to stand up to his parents, what kind of marriage would they have, anyway? He's slightly less yeshivish the Lakewood crowd anyway. Is this what HaShem wants, do you think? Parents to be extorted $, blackmailed, so a boy can learn? This is not Yiddishkeit, not to me, anyway. I don't care what "our" circles do, this is just wrong. And when my son is dating, I will be asking for nothing. If he wants to learn, he can do the asking himself, I want no part of this.

Heyaaa

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 2:48 am

Say they manage to find an apartment for $1000. That means they have $500 to spend. That's not really enough to live. Even if she doesn't have a car, how is he getting to and from yeahiva every day and how is she getting to and from school. And who's paying their utilities/electricity?

I don't think his parents are being unreasonable for asking that much but I do think they're being unreasonable if they're not willing to also do partial support.

If the answer is that you can't afford to support then why are you doing it?

amother

Oak

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 2:56 am

Sarale Licht1 wrote:

Nobody is saying you have to do this! But, I am saying that your average boy that wants to learn in Lkwd is not going to consider your daughter. Yes, there is a BIG problem w/ the system, but no, I do not think it reflects badly on the majority of boys that go along with the system, unless they are unreasonably greedy, like asking for more than the norm. You need to be very clear about this and realize it's not just going to be this one family.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 2:56 am

Sarale Licht1 wrote:

The system is broken and unsustainable if you have to borrow money from your parents to support a future SIL.

Sarale Licht1

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 2:58 am

Because we want our daughter to be happy. And we think it's possible for us to manage the $1,500 with help, but not the $2,000. Nobody discussed $ with us until now, when they're already dating semi seriously. If they had I would have told the truth. But I was told $ is usually not discussed until later. I thought that was strange, but I went along with it. Why am I doing it? Blackmail, pure and simple. I want to see my daughter happy, and married, this is the kind of boy she wanted. If I said no, she'd never get a date. Frankly, I didn't think we'd get to this point until she was already working in her field, because, shidduch crisis. There are many older single women in my family, and I figured my daughter would be the same way. So we're trading one problem for another. But it's better for me if I can picture the boy's parents not as money grubbers, but just as asking for the regular thing. Because if they do get married, I'd rather not hate his parents.

amother

Oak

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 3:01 am

Heyaaa wrote:

Many of them can't do this b/c their circles are fully supporting daughters. So, if they have a married daughter or several married daughters or single girls, they can't afford to help their son who could be fully supported b/c they need the money for their girls.

I agree w/ everything else you wrote.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 3:10 am

Sarale Licht1 wrote:

Is your DD aware that you can't afford the 'blackmail'? Have you told her you will likely be going into debt so that she can marry the kind of boy she wanted?

What will you do when the babies start coming? It sounds as if you may be tapped out. Are your own parents pockets deep enough to continue to help you to support your DDs lifestyle?

Sarale Licht1

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 3:24 am

My daughter is fully aware how difficult this is. I'm hoping she'll be working in her field by the time babies come. My parents are poor. My husband's Dad has a good pension and he doesn't need all the $ to live on. But my husband and I have always been independent, we got little to no help, we were both working in our fields when we got married. It breaks my heart to turn into a beggar now, all because of a system I never subscribed to or believed in.

amother

Oak

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 3:58 am

Sarale Licht1 wrote:

I don't understand what you really want to happen, unless what you want is for future SIL to get a job right after his wedding (not likely to make much money either if he has no degree).

If you want your daughter to get married young (w/ not enough time to finish her schooling, get a job and save up money), you're going to have to help them.

Maybe the fixed amount is bothering you, but even if it wasn't a fixed amount, assuming the boy's family is unable/unwilling to help (you should make that assumption b/c it's likely the reality in circles were boys can easily be supported), the couple is going to need to eat and have shelter. Unless she is going on BC (not typical in yeshivish circles before first child), she could have a baby 10 mos. after her wedding and not have time to save up.

How old is she? Maybe you want to encourage her to start dating later when she has savings and job experience.

amother

Blue

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 4:38 am

Its a stinky corrupt system but I hate to break it to you, unless you want your daughter single you will need to support. In my experience, few Lakewood guys (unless parents are comfortable or normal and out of town types) are going to be contributing too much. Its a bad system but I dont think you should make ur daughter break up over money if you can "almost" afford it. Especially if your daughter is about to work or
Finishing up a degree. If she lives in lakewood, she can get foodstamps and some other gvt programs and rent is relatively cheap. Perhaps they can use some chasuna money as well or does ur daughter have any savings?
We cant put our kids through the system and let them date guys and then wake up at the end.

amother

Oak

Wed, Dec 30 2015, 4:45 am

What I am finding interesting is that you are only hearing about money once they are already dating. This usually comes up before the boy agrees to even date the girl. OP, if this is the right one, I hope it works out and may Hashem help with the money. But, for future, if you can't or don't believe in supporting, please make this clear from the beginning! And please don't be shocked if your daughter is turned down just b/c of this. Unfortunately, this is the reality of the yeshivish shidduch market right now.