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Forum -> Yom Tov / Holidays -> Pesach
For those who sell chometz gamur over Pesach
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amother
Gray


 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 3:57 pm
We've never done this before. It is our minhag to get rid of all chometz even in places that get sold, for example my extra freezer. I always have to use up any soups that have flour in them, frozen chometz'dige side dishes etc.

This year (and for this year only due to certain circumstances) we will be selling chometz. I've made quite a few things to stock up my freezer which are chometz'dige and I don't care if I'll use them up or not before Pesach.

The one thing I can't get myself to do is bake challos for after Pesach. It feels so weird and "not done." Especially because I usually bake shlissel challah for the first Shabbas after Pesach. Is this my own psychological blockage and there's really no issue OR is there some reason (aside from potential freezer-burn Wink ) that I should avoid baking challos now to be used then and sold over Pesach.
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happybeingamom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 4:05 pm
I sell Chometz but try to get rid of as much as possible. Schnapps mainly

I do not cook chometz food before Pesach to use after Pesach.

The reason to sell is not to take a big financial loss, prepared foods and Challahs are not that much money.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 4:09 pm
happybeingamom wrote:
I sell Chometz but try to get rid of as much as possible. Schnapps mainly

I do not cook chometz food before Pesach to use after Pesach.

The reason to sell is not to take a big financial loss, prepared foods and Challahs are not that much money.

You sell chometz but not l'chatchila? Is that it?
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Miri7




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 4:10 pm
We sell chometz but I get rid of most of the real chometz anyway. DH keeps his scotch, but otherwise we use up or donate everything. We keep a bunch of foodstuffs that might have trace amounts of chometz and sell them.

I do know some people who keep and deep their pasta, etc but DH says we only keep the really value able chometz = scotch.
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happybeingamom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 4:28 pm
amother wrote:
You sell chometz but not l'chatchila? Is that it?


Yes
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ra_mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 4:33 pm
My brother keeps Chometz like pasta, cereal, etc if he has whole packages of them. Open packages are used up or thrown out as those aren't considered a big enough financial loss as per his Rav.
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Seas




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 4:33 pm
amother wrote:
We've never done this before. It is our minhag to get rid of all chometz even in places that get sold, for example my extra freezer. I always have to use up any soups that have flour in them, frozen chometz'dige side dishes etc.

This year (and for this year only due to certain circumstances) we will be selling chometz. I've made quite a few things to stock up my freezer which are chometz'dige and I don't care if I'll use them up or not before Pesach.

The one thing I can't get myself to do is bake challos for after Pesach. It feels so weird and "not done." Especially because I usually bake shlissel challah for the first Shabbas after Pesach. Is this my own psychological blockage and there's really no issue OR is there some reason (aside from potential freezer-burn Wink ) that I should avoid baking challos now to be used then and sold over Pesach.


The Chofetz Chaim once spoke to Jews who'd unfortunately been conscripted in the army. He said, "I know many of you will not be able to withstand eating non-kosher, and who knows, it might even be pikuach nefesh so how can I ask you to abstain. One thing I do ask of you, however, is at least don't suck on the bones."

I think the analogy applies here.
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gittelchana




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 5:35 pm
We sell our Chametz. Even real Chametz because the AR made a serious sale with an Arev Kablan. The sale is real and covers all possibilities (like the [gentile] wanting all the Chametz or backing out in middle of Pesach etc.)

I don't know all the inns and outs of this complicated subject. I just know that the way we do our sale is pretty much bullet proof. We therefore are confident to sell real Chametz as well.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 5:43 pm
We sell all chametz including bread...
Why dont you ask the rav that told you you can sell actual chametz this year to what extent he meant
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November




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 6:13 pm
I don't know anyone who would bake challahs for after Pesach. Most people I know who sell their chometz try to use up as much as they can.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 8:34 pm
Ok thanks everyone for your answers.

We actually did not ask a rav about selling chometz. We both knew that people do it and it's our minhag not to. This year it will be really difficult for us, so we decided to cut out this minhag/chumra for this year.

Now I see from all your replies that it's not so simple as simply selling. We need to ask and clarify what we can and can't do. I've already done lots of things ahead, but I guess that will be part of the question now.
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happybeingamom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 9:17 pm
Is there a health reason that you need to prepare food in advance? If there is do mention that to the Rav.
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gold21




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 10:31 pm
We sell chametz, but try to get rid of as much as possible before Pesach. We would not bake challos before pesach to freeze over pesach. Dont know halachic reason.
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thanks




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 10:55 pm
In my parent home, we got rid of everything but the liqueur. Since I am married, I've been selling real chometz. If I have bread or challah in the freezer, I sell it. Flour, pasta, cereal in the cabinets gets sold too. It was hard to get used to, so I understand where you are coming from.
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amother
Gray


 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 10:59 pm
thanks wrote:
In my parent home, we got rid of everything but the liqueur. Since I am married, I've been selling real chometz. If I have bread or challah in the freezer, I sell it. Flour, pasta, cereal in the cabinets gets sold too. It was hard to get used to, so I understand where you are coming from.

Would you proactively challah or buy bread to have in the freezer for after Pesach? That's really the question here. I'm going to be asking our rav anyway, but now I'm curious.
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5mom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jan 28 2016, 11:12 pm
I think that if you are actively planning to use some chametz, then you are counting on getting it back. It's hard to claim that you are really selling it.
That said, we don't sell any chametz for Pesach, so ask your rabbi.
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gittelchana




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 29 2016, 12:05 am
5mom wrote:
I think that if you are actively planning to use some chametz, then you are counting on getting it back. It's hard to claim that you are really selling it.
That said, we don't sell any chametz for Pesach, so ask your rabbi.


That's why you need a bulletproof sale with an Arev Kablan. So it isn't a joke sale. So it's a very serious financial transaction.

Please don't de-legitimize the sale of Chametz used by thousands of Yidden including many/most/all kosher bakeries.
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5mom




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 29 2016, 12:24 am
gittelchana wrote:
That's why you need a bulletproof sale with an Arev Kablan. So it isn't a joke sale. So it's a very serious financial transaction.

Please don't de-legitimize the sale of Chametz used by thousands of Yidden including many/most/all kosher bakeries.


I'm not delegitimizing this. It's a legitimate loophole. The question is how much we want to rely on a loophole when we are dealing with an issur kares. In the case of bakeries and stores, we are talking about a major financial loss, and Chazal were sensitive to that.

As an individual, I choose not to rely on this. I can afford to donate a few boxes of pasta to food banks (though I plan in advance so I won't have much left) and when you consider what it costs to make Pesach, this is not much of a loss.

ETA: it sounded to me that we were dealing with a case of particular challah for a particular week, where the sense of ownership is stronger than just selling a box of cereal for use at some uncertain time in the future. But again, this is what shul rabbis do. I would ask.
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chani8




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 29 2016, 3:41 am
Most people I know will keep flour that can be used to bake challah after.

But the stores have pizza dough and pita in their freezers, and take them out immediately after pesach, and everyone who holds by the sales, eats those. So, if a store can do it, so can you. A sale is a sale. A poor person is told not to give away their chometz, and often the community gives chometz to the poor. I've seen a poor family given boxes of chometz two days before pesach. And it's ok, because a sale is a sale.

It got easier to adjust my pesach mentality once I had so many kids that I simply could not control everything, and twice found whole entire sandwiches after pesach. For sanity's sake, you learn to count on both the sale and the bittuling.

For those of you criticizing the sale, you apparently dont hold by rabbonim? Is that not chutzpah? I may be chutzpah but I hold by the sale. It's very simple. If rabbonim can force stringencies, they can surely provide 'loopholes'.
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etky




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jan 29 2016, 4:05 am
chani8 wrote:
Most people I know will keep flour that can be used to bake challah after.

But the stores have pizza dough and pita in their freezers, and take them out immediately after pesach, and everyone who holds by the sales, eats those. So, if a store can do it, so can you. A sale is a sale. A poor person is told not to give away their chometz, and often the community gives chometz to the poor. I've seen a poor family given boxes of chometz two days before pesach. And it's ok, because a sale is a sale.

It got easier to adjust my pesach mentality once I had so many kids that I simply could not control everything, and twice found whole entire sandwiches after pesach. For sanity's sake, you learn to count on both the sale and the bittuling.

For those of you criticizing the sale, you apparently dont hold by rabbonim? Is that not chutzpah? I may be chutzpah but I hold by the sale. It's very simple. If rabbonim can force stringencies, they can surely provide 'loopholes'.


The sale was instituted to prevent major financial loss, mainly to businesses and less so for private individuals. It also provides another measure of safety, aside from the bitul, for individuals who may encounter overlooked chametz despite having done biur.
Obviously, different poskim will have varied opinions regarding the breadth of the technical loophole of the mechira vs. adhering to the spirit of בל יראה ובל ימצא in the case of private individuals.
Our mara d'atra stongly believes in getting rid of all chametz gamur before Pessach and then selling what remains to cover items that might be chashash chametz or things like overlooked sandwhiches Smile
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