Turn Myself lnside Out, Nobody Is Happy

amother

Red

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 9:15 am

I am a SAHM with 4 kids. Husband works FT. I spend my day running around from carpool to babysitter to supper to volunteer to homework to bedtime etc. Etc. I am starting to realize that I kind of always thought that if I work hard and focus on providing a positive, nurturing environment for my family, the result would be a positive, happy household. But it has not turned out that way and it is making me really depressed.
The main problem is my kids, 12, 10, 7 and 3. I almost wish I could say they have some sort of diagnosed problem because that would explain how difficult they are. But they are kah doing well in school and socially. But when they come home it seems like their main goal is to suck the life out of me like vampires. They cannot go ten minutes without my involvement to break up a fight or give them a bottle (which I really wish would stop) or help them with their homework (which really means listening to them kvetch while they don't do their homework until I promise them a treat and then they scramble throuh it in three minutes and demand a reward). I have to sit with THREE of them through bedtime, and often make two suppers because one threw a fit that he doesn't like meatballs (which he liked last week) or because my husband is on a diet. I know people will say I need to learn to say no or control my children but I have read all the books and have a consistent approach that works until it doesn't, and the main effect seems to be to keep my children feeling safe and secure while sucking the life out of me.
The final straw was yesterday when my husband can home from work a little early. He came in cheerful and within minutes the kids had ruined the evening by bickering and tantruming until he exploded. When things finally settled down, he said he has learned his lesson and he always regrets coming home early and from now on when he has flexibility he will have to find a quiet place near his office where he can relax until the kids are asleep.
I don't know what to do. We are usually on the same page and I was so hurt by what he said but at the same time he is right. I wouldnt want to come he either. I am too upset to continue typing but maybe someone can offer chizuk or advice...

mummiedearest

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 9:30 am

well, you said it yourself. you need to say no more often. it really does help. if you don't want to constantly give bottles, get your three year old off bottles. yes, you'll still have to give drinks. however, be aware that your older kids are capable of fetching drinks for the younger ones.

don't bribe the kids to do their homework. there should be some rules regarding homework: 1) if it's your homework, you need to do it yourself. mommy can help only if you don't understand a question or if you need someone to test you.

2) if you don't do your homework, you'll get into trouble with your teacher. this is a natural consequence of not doing your homework. you will not get rewarded for doing your homework every night, especially if any part of the homework involved a tantrum.

supper:

mommy makes one supper. if you don't like it, you will be hungry. there is no other food before bedtime.

bedtime: you can still sit with three of them, but limit the time you do. the ten year old can have a bedtime story, and you can listen to shema. that's the extent of your sitting with that one. seven year old can have a bedtime story, shema, cuddle for two or three minutes. then leave the room. little one can have a five minute cuddle. at three, a kid should be able to fall asleep on his own.

fights: a friend of my parents used a great expression: call me when there's blood. basically, if it's a minor squabble between siblings, don't let them draw you into it. they can learn to handle it themselves.

kids feel safe and secure with boundaries in place. you are not setting any boundaries, you're teaching them that rules don't apply to them. they have you wrapped around their pinky. books are not good sources of parenting advice if they recommend making yourself a doormat. teach them to respect you by enforcing rules.

mommy3b2c

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 9:31 am

I am also a sahm. 3 kids bh. Husband also never home. My kids can also behave pretty badly. To me it sounds like you are letting them step all over you. You didn't give to many examples, but let's say the one with the meatballs. Let him scream and tantrum. Ignore him. Give him a sandwich or a bowl of cereal. By making him on another supper, you just taught him he can get away with it. If you give more examples I can advise you more.

mummiedearest

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 9:38 am

mommy2b2c wrote:

some would argue that cereal or a sandwich teach the same thing.

amother

Red

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 9:42 am

Thanks mummiedearest and mommy2b2c.
The problem with saying no more often is that it doesn't make things easier. It makes them harder. The kids will throw a tantrum up to and including breaking things. Consequences have no meaning - if my ten year old breaks a window while he tantrums I can take away his allowance till he's twelve to pay for the repair and the only consequence is I have no tool to use tomorrow. I should mention that he's the only one where that is a problem, and he is the most challenging of them. But I also have to treat them all similarly, so where does that leave me?
I think that letting them suffer the consequences with the teacher is a good idea that I will have to try.

Chayalle

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 9:46 am

I'm not officially a SAHM - I'm a WFHM (work from home Mom) so I'm generally home.

I tell my kids I'm a MOM - not a policeman. Unless someone is likely to get hurt, my involvement in their bickering, etc..is very minimal.

This actually leads to less bickering and fighting, because the less people involved in a fight, the less it is fueled...and yes, you getting involved makes the fight bigger. I try not to take sides, and tell them to settle their own affairs. They learn social skills and negotiating on their own, without wearing me out.

Their homework is also their own responsibility, not mine, to the extent that I'm not needed. They need to get out their h.w. and do it on their own, your involvement is only where you are needed (for example, if your child has to read something to you, or you need to read out the spelling words that they write out....) but not to ensure it gets done.

In terms of supper, anyone who does not like what's on the menu can make themselves a peanut butter sandwich, have cereal and milk, or a pizza bagel that they put up by themselves in the toaster oven. Feel free to substitute anything that works for your own family. This is not a restaurant.

OP, you need to put some control into their hands. Let them make their own choices. It's not your job to ensure their happiness and security - in fact, too much taking care of them, as you can see, minimizes it. Let go a bit, and let the dynamics change. You can do it.

thunderstorm

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 9:52 am

I think you have to "let go" a bit with yourself...ignore the tantrums and crying , dont even react. Go into your room and close the door...dont show that it causes you stress...because if you react they are just getting negative attention.
DONT make more than one dinner, they dont like it ..too bad! My pediatrician told me that I can let my son starve (even if he didnt eat all day, he said a mother should never feel obligated to make more than one healthy dinner and no harm will come to the child if they dont eat)
I do not stress over homework...if my DS doesnt do it , I tell him it's YOUR loss and YOU will have to deal with the consequence in school. I never have to tell them to do homework , because they already suffered the consequences and they see it's not worth it.
My DH would never come home if my house was like that...I noticed that he doesnt come home on time on Thursdays because I'm the most stressed and yelling and screaming etc....and I dont even blame him, if I had the choice I'd do the same.
In regard to your child that breaks things...my kids dont even receive allowances. I'm sure there is some sort of privilege you can take away. One of my sons loves to read...when he gets punished, he is sent to his room and I remove all the books from his room ...for him that is a HUGE punishment. Think of things he likes to play with and if he breaks something etc. he loses it for a week, a month whatever...and be CONSISTENT...you have to show them when you say something you mean it...children know when you are just threatening and you dont plan on carrying through with your threat

mummiedearest

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 9:54 am

amother wrote:

amother, you don't actually have to treat your kids the same. figure out something that works. for the 10 year old, I'd recommend a 10 minute time out, plus he has to clean up the broken item or repair it, depending on what it is. if it's a window, he can carefully clean the glass (picking up the large pieces using a thick towel while wearing shoes) and help tape up the cracks/hole until repair. he can also be made to look up the number for the window repair service. these are things he's old enough to do. supervise the glass clean up to make sure he's safe. if your 3 yr old breaks something on purpose, a 3 minute time out would suffice. more would be inappropriate to his age.

time outs work pretty well for many ages. for an older kid, grounding works too. this can mean no seeing friends outside school for a certain number of days, no phone, no screens, whatever you want it to mean. using lack of allowance as a consequence is not helpful for the reason you mentioned above. also, kids who are not interested in money will really not care if you take allowance away. my kid would probably decide that it's worth $3 (random amount) to go against the rules.

Chayalle

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 9:54 am

amother wrote:

If your 10 year old tantrums to the extent that he is breaking things, that is beyond what is age appropriate for him.....have you considered getting him evaluated to find out what is at the core of these behaviors? This changes the picture a bit, he may be the source of what is draining you and the rest of the household. Getting his needs addressed can go a big way toward relieving the stress on everyone else.

And no, you do not treat them all similarly - you treat them all according to needs. If his needs are different than his siblings, then it's understood that a different plan of action is called for. Chanoch L'naar Al Pi Darko.

I have one child that has had sensory and behavioral issues (B"H much improved) and my approach to her has been different than to my other children, because her needs were different.

Chayalle

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 9:59 am

Bizzydizzymommy wrote:

DONT make more than one dinner, they dont like it ..too bad! My pediatrician told me that I can let my son starve (even if he didnt eat all day, he said a mother should never feel obligated to make more than one healthy dinner and no harm will come to the child if they dont eat)

I agree and like the rest of your post, but with all due respect to your pediatrician....though the child may not be harmed physically, the emotional aspect of a child going to bed hungry also must be addressed.

My parenting mentor (Mrs. Leah Trenk of Lakewood) recommends having a simple food choice that the child can prepare themselves or that is very easy to give. I had a (foster) child that went thru an I-won't-eat-any-chicken phase. His choice was to eat cheerios and milk every night, and I let it go. It lasted about two weeks, he got bored of the cereal, and announced he wants chicken. It has worked for me with my kids, to offer simple choices and let them come round by themselves to better eating.

thunderstorm

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 10:04 am

Chayalle wrote:

I do that ...I leave plain bread out in case the child is really hungry..but most of the time he is just being stubborn about the food I served....the doctor told me this in front of my DS , and he told my DS how important it is to eat the healthy meals I make. So I dont think he will feel emotional harm since he knows that this was the doctors advice...the doctor was talking to both of us together.

I have a SIL that literally makes 5 different suppers every night and she is stressed beyond words..children should not be controlling their parents like this.

Chayalle

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 10:09 am

Bizzydizzymommy wrote:

Totally agree about not catering to kids with 5 different suppers.....I think leaving bread out is fine. As long as they have the option of eating SOMETHING.

youngishbear

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 10:17 am

The reason for the second part of your title is the first. You are enabling your kids' behavior by catering to their demands.

Do you ever take care of yourself? Are you the official shmattah of the house? Consider what this is teaching your sons about the role of the wife in the house. And I am sorry but your husband needs to be home more not less. His attitude is not okay. You need to show a united front to the kids and begin to set rules together

I agree that breaking windows is way beyond normal and the child needs an evaluation.

The children may become worse for a while as you learn to set boundaries but they will learn eventually that tantrums earn them nothing. It will fizzle out. If it doesn't, get the tantrumer evaluated.

You would probably benefit from parenting coaching or something similar. Classes are not enough for this level of burnout and the unhealthy pattern of overextending yourself for your kids.

amother

Red

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 10:57 am

Thank you all for the responses. I am going to try at least a few of the suggestions, like having cereal available for supper and removing myself from situations rather than watching them escalate. Even though I am anonymous, I feel like I need to clarify that my son has never broken a window - it's just that once he gets going he has no way to stop himself and just gets worse and worse including banging on doors and throwing toys, etc.

youngishbear

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 11:02 am

amother wrote:

So what you're saying is you are afraid of him.

That's still not okay. Are they at least more respectful of your husband?

mummiedearest

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 11:04 am

amother wrote:

I have a kid like that. he's currently in therapy and getting OT. I'm working on getting him more services. on the home front, we still punish for unacceptable behavior, and we are working on incorporating the things he learns in therapy into home life. he still gets upset (sometimes loses control), but he has been much happier in general. please learn to help him, get him outside help, and get yourself some outside help as well, even if it means a babysitter one evening a week during homework and dinner time while you go out or pretend you're not home.

thunderstorm

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 11:04 am

amother wrote:

I've had my son react occasionally like this as well. (age 10 also) when he really got angry..we put an end to this behavior immediately , he had privileges taken away...I haven't seen him act this way in a long time B"H. I dont think he needs to be evaluated, unless this is a constant thing..crying and tantruming like a 3 year old is not appropriate though for this age.

amother

Lilac

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 11:04 am

Regarding your point that saying no makes them worse: well, of course it does, you haven't been doing it until now. They're going to resist any changes you try to implement. Those first two weeks are going to be the hardest, but you have to stick to it. If you can do that, they will figure out you mean business and once they realize the new world order, they'll settle down. I had a few things I lost control of and had to take back, and the hardest part was those first 2 weeks, where they tried to break me so I'd go back to the old ways. Also, since there are a number of things going on here, you might want to try working on 2 to start, and once those have been comfortably implemented, move on to the next thing. It'll be easier to change things and stick with it if it's not everything at the same time starting from scratch.

pause

Fri, Jan 29 2016, 11:11 am

I love love love the book "How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids will Talk." I really think that the main theories of that book would help you here.

It teaches how to set boundaries and state your needs while doing so in a loving, respectful manner. Helps the children feel safe and secure. A lot is also about letting the kids make their own choices and allowing natural consequences play themselves out so that you are less involved.

It sounds like the more you are trying to control the situation so desperately, the more they are fighting you. If you relinquish some of that control, they will have less to fight you and be more apt to listen when you actually do take a position on something.