Child expelled in front of the whole school?

amother

Ecru

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 7:09 am

abound wrote:

K, so the school has a rule about no phones. Maybe they sent home a notice to the parents and/or anounced to all the kids that there is a no tolerance policy for cell phones in school. The kids are all listening..........but they know they need to enforce. The principal walks into the hallway during recess or class and finds this kid blatantly disregarding the school rule and watching a movie or showing his freinds something or just using the phone in full view of everyone. The principal stops the kid, tells him/her to pack up and leave. It was done because the child completely disregarded the school in full view of the "entire school"
I am playing devils advocate here, but I can see how something like this can happen without it being that the school is in the wrong.

If the principal quietly called the girl into her office and called a meeting and at the meeting told her to pack her bags, everyone would find out that she got kicked out and why she got kicked out.

If the principal told her to leave in front of everyone it sounds more like she acted out of rage rather than trying to uphold the school rule.

Again there is no excuse for embarrassing a student in public. I understand mistakes happen but being in control of your anger is something that I think is crucial for a principal because kids are kids and they are going to get under your skin.

amother

Hotpink

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 7:10 am

Sorry, abound, there is ZERO excuse (though I'm definitely skeptical the story occurred as reported). Firstly, schools have lots of rules. Most are not grounds for expulsion, certainly not on the spot. There is docking, detention, suspension, asked not to come back next year. Immediate expulsion is for rare and very egregious cases. And in addition to the humiliation factor, expulsion is not a decision made on the spot or in the heat of the moment. Kid is breaking major rule in front of everyone? You stop it and haul them into the office. That gets the message through to the others loud enough, and if they later hear the kid is not coming back, they'll hear hear it just as clear as they would from the principals mouth in the moment. I have been part of meetings to decide on expulsion. And yes, obviously it's for something very serious, the kids and parents were notified all along the way while things were escalating to that point etc. That still wouldn't excuse doing it publicly or on the spot. A school that would humiliate a child or make a rash, heat of the moment decision about something as serious and permanent as expulsion should not be in the business of education.

Seas

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 12:50 pm

Sorry to be the dissenting view but while I don't know enough about this particular case to comment on it, it's not entirely true that public shaming is never ever acceptable. In some cases an example has to be made. As adults, for example, a judge will publicly dress down a criminal. In the Torah we find the concept of lema'an yishme'u v'yira'u.

Heyaaa

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 1:23 pm

Seas wrote:

We don't have a true beis din to tell us that we are allowed to embarrass someone.

This school sounds like they have really bad judgment.

Also you're comparing an adult criminal to a young girl who broke the rule (or rules).

HonesttoGod

Mon, Feb 01 2016, 3:34 pm

I didn't get past the line "in front of the whole school".
I don't care what this student did, how bad she was or how right the school were to kick her out, it SHOULD NOT have been done in front of everyone. Even if everyone would eventually find out.
The embarrassment. Horrific.

Ruchel

Wed, Feb 03 2016, 11:25 am

I've never seen this. Yes it's bad. That said, I grew up with kids being put in the corner, grades read aloud, kids expeled from class.. and "irl" no one was forever emoting and traumatized. But bad? Yes in front of the whole school is bad.

amother

Copper

Wed, Feb 03 2016, 12:48 pm

Ruchel wrote:

People like to say that noone was harmed long term due to the harsh discipline practices in school....however the reality is quite different. First of all, you would have no way of knowing whether or not what you witnessed caused long term harm, because most people don't discuss it with casual or even close acquaintances. Secondly, childhood shame and humiliation can have deep and long lasting impact, including underperformance as an adult, and a host of emotional problems such as depression, anxiety, addictions, etc. Some individuals are more resilient than others and can recover from such experiences, but some suffer long lasting harm. Again, no way for you to generalize and make that assessment.

amother

Ivory

Wed, Feb 03 2016, 1:24 pm

I have to say that I am impressed that this post has, as of the moment, 2879 views, (well, several are mine...) and not one person has posted that they know this particular story.

Showing either that all members of imamother regularly study Shemiras haLashon, nobody here has a child or relative in that particular school, or, perhaps, that the story never happened!