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Help me find myself & my place in Lakewood
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 3:36 pm
I need help figuring out a nice neighborhood, shul, friends in Lakewood.
Sorry for the long post, it's a kind of rant. I appreciate your patience - I am in a rather low point now socially, and it's more of a cry for help.

Some background: frum bt's from another country, in our 30-s, lived in NY, then Lakewood. Can't find friends, husband has been majorly turned off from learning and davening by some "big-name" yeshivos, roshei yeshiva, rabbis in NY and Lakewood, as well as by numerous ordinary "frum" people who act like garbage. We were in many situations where people try to cheat in you business and daily life, not accept you in schools, want to kick you out when your finances change etc; abuse their wives, harass somebody else's kids etc.

In NY dh was trying hard to find a shul and community for years. He kept pushing himself and went for years even where ppl totally ignored him and didn't answer to "gut shabbos" etc. Those who know what I am talking about will understand. After 7-10 years in NY we moved to Lakewood, naively thinking it was a friendly place and we would find our place here.
(We visited here a few times fr YT and people said gut yom tov, we were sold Smile We also ended up in one friendly shul but that neighborhood is too expensive for us to move to).

We feel the society we're in almost lives on a different planet. My understanding of things is
somewhat similar to that of a few select "trailblazer" individuals, who are unfortunately not in my league. For 10+ years, we've been bothered by serious issues that are finally being spoken about only now! I don't mean to say we are so super special. If anything, we are unlearned simple people. But maybe being outsiders and always thinking for ourselves (after all, we changed our entire lives around for a reason!) - we see things that the "insiders" may not realize are awfully wrong.

On the surface, we look somewhat integrated. Kids in good schools, B'H, with exceptional menahalim (meaning they don't treat yidden badly based on narishkeit things).

We look and dress normal, not weird, not inappropriate. We're not "modern" in a bad sense, whatever that means. We keep good kashrus, dress b'tzniyus, don't make dirty jokes or speak with nivul pe. We try to be honest and earn an honest living.We definitely know what's internet and we work; but we don't do things like bikini on the beach, going to pubs, casinos, we don't even dress "with it". I know it sounds like a mishkebabl (sp?) but I hope you'll get the idea. DH is very strict on himself with shmiras haloshon, shmiras eynaim and is a very erlich mentch. When I was in therapy, I even made sure to check with my FFB, originally OOT therapist to make sure I didn't have inappropriate social expectations because of my cultural background, and wasn't needy bec. of my family bg (a few family members with BPD).

The problem is - we haven't found a shul, bais medrash, community or friends.

From Imamother, I see there are some nice normal people living in Lakewood (hello, Chayalle, Sky and others!).

Where do normal people live and daven? We're so isolated, husband totally snobbed out by neighbors that we are seriously considering moving out to the woods. "Stron" Jackson awaits.
It may be more lonely and def. harder in terms of logistics. However, for dh it might be better to have no neighbors than those that ignore you and want nothing to do with you.

He tried several shuls. It's been basically either a cold unfriendly place, or a friendly one with drinking and tznius issues (these matter to us).

He tried to go learn in a few places. It's all the same. He can't stomach sitting next to a man who he knows abuses his family and beat up others' kids. He can't sit in a place where rabbis ignore him and pretend he's a piece of nothing. He can't deal with friendly guys who try to cheat others out of their money, or brag how cleverly they cheat the system. Or deal with big learners who look down on working men - that is until they want a favor from them, or want their money.

In other words, we are picky. But we are picky about things we can't compromise on.

I know a few nice people that I would like to associate with, learn from - but they are "not in my league" (think my kids' menahalim, teachers and some "old-style" plain frum ehrliche yidden).

Please help! We feel so lonely, without frum family or friends, in a community that is teeming with huge families, kollelim, men who are busy with their learning and davening etc.

It's very lonely and very hard, without a place to learn on daven.

On top of it, over the years I think I sort of lost myself. I am by nature a weird mixture of introvert and extrovert. Is there such a thing? Meaning I am definitely not a party planner, am always behind on social news and developments and enjoy a smaller but better company.
On the other hand, I am not shy to speak up when things are wrong and could lecture a room full of people if I think it's important enough to voice my opinion.

In this society, I kind of learned that I am nobody and nothing, nobody cares if I move in or move out, nobody cares what I think. The majority thinks the opposite (if you ask me - they're really screwed up though). I'm kind of a leader without anyone to lead, with ambitions only. I think I'm turning into a grumpy old lady though I'm quite young.

Oh, and the reality is my DH is not the type to be a leader or preacher. So starting our own place is not an option, never mind we don't know anyone who is similar to us.

Chayalle (I'm really looking up to you) and others - please post your replies.

Thanks.
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mommyla




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 3:48 pm
Chestnut. Raintree. Jackson. Toms River. A neighborhood as opposed to a development. I live in one of the aforementioned Very Happy and we are so happy here. If you'd like to know more you can pm me.

(Sorry for brevity, very busy day but didn't want to read without posting)
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:01 pm
Central Ave area is fantastic. There are lots of small communities going up connected to small shuls (some with rav some without).
There is a huge mix of all different people and for the most part everyone gets along amazing and in many areas the standards are much lower and there is no competition or keeping up with the Jones.

Off the top of my head going up Central:
Tomor shul
Rabbi Iron's shul
Raber Shul
R' Haplpern Shul
R' Nishlos Shul (more heimish)

we even have an authentic Careblach minyan at Dr Rothkopf's house
And many many others.

(disclaimer - I'm sure there are many neighborhoods along Central not like that, but for the most part its a great place to live and raise children. )

Personally I would look for a non-development and a mix of all ages.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:14 pm
Under the best possible circumstances, I would say leave Lakewood. RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN AND DONT LOOK BACK

If financial reasons, don't allow for that, similar to me,then Rabbi Milstein on new central is as good as it gets for Lakewood. I find the shul to be very welcoming to old bts ( well I'm probably a lot older than you Smile ), like you and me..

I think Rabbi Milstein is from lamed-vov hidden tzadikim in this generation
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:22 pm
Thank you for replies.

It so happens that over the years I've met a few very nice people and they all seemed to live around Central. It is unfortunately super expensive there. At this stage we would like to try to buy and prices are prohibitively high.

raintree dh is creeped out by the type of neighbors there.

Chestnut we've been trying to get into for a few years, probably know every house on every block. Every time some thing or other went wrong, from reasonable to inexplicable. I took it as a sign that maybe we shouldn't go there.

Looking into Jackson now. The one house that we found that may work seems to be in the middle of nowhere, somewhere by Brewers bridge. Right now there is nobody frum there, walking distance to Pawnee are. Would it be nuts to go there?

Which part of Jackson is the type of people we are looking for (not the standard "elitist" ones lol)?
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studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:24 pm
Have to agree with natural mom. Frankly, we didn't fit into lakewood either for many similar reasons, and also moved after years of misery.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:28 pm
Naturalmom, I'm not running from here so soon for several reasons.

Where on central is r milstein? From where we are now it's not that close Sad

I think my dh is one of the lamedvavniks as well, maybe they would get along )))))
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:30 pm
amother wrote:
Naturalmom, I'm not running from here so soon for several reasons.

Where on central is r milstein? From where we are now it's not that close Sad

I think my dh is one of the lamedvavniks as well, maybe they would get along )))))


New central and Miller
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:33 pm
Studying Torah, we moved from ny "after years of misery" but then kids were small and transition was easy, bh. We got both genders into good schools here and are happy about it. I would not take chances with that. I know someone who moved from another "in-town" place to a supposedly nice and friendly oot one, and all of them are miserable because the school situation turned very sour.

I also like my Drs and dentists lol.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:35 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
New central and Miller


That's sad, I don't have half a mil plus for a house there yet, or half a mil for an old dark "creepy" hut ((
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Simple1




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:35 pm
I think part of the issue is that Lakewood is a huge town and it has a big city mentality. I don't think people are in and of themselves cold, it's just easier to get lost in a big city. I feel like the people with a lot of family around (which I don't) have the easiest time in Lakewood.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:36 pm
Also, where do I go to make friends? Any particular shiurim where you don't just walk in and out and nobody cares if you don't show up anymore because you died?
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UQT




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:46 pm
You don't specify what type of neighborhood you live in and if you have friends on the block. Do your kids have friends? Most of my friends are my immediate neighbors who I share car pool and long hours outside on summer afternoons. Winters are definitely more lonely - is that where it is coming from?

I work from home so I need some sort of social life even in the dead of the winter. I volunteer for my kids school melave malka which has me connected to a few people during Dec & Jan. I made some good friends that way. One person keeps begging me to volunteer at Deja New - she said there is a terrific crowd there and it's great. I can't commit to something so regular so I haven't done it yet.

I don't know how free you are in general - but I find having one walking partner in the spring and fall helps a lot from feeling isolated. I get a good hour of shmoozing, exercising and then I can crawl into my hole at work and be satisfied socially for the day.

As far as your husband - my husband is completely anti-social in crowds and he's way better one on one so he may be the guy who is not being welcoming to your DH. Sometimes it's just a personality nothing personal.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:47 pm
Do you think it's carzy to move to the boondocks near Brewers bridge and Clearstream?
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UQT




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:48 pm
If you try out the shul and you are happy there it may work for you. Just make sure there are kids your children's age and they will have access to them. I would go crazy if my kids didn't have some sort of social life.
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studying_torah




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 4:56 pm
Our kids are older, but bh we love the schools, drs, and have amazing neighbors!
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 5:01 pm
This may not be practical, but you may do better in a smaller OOT community. I moved OOT from Lakewood and found that there were so many opportunities to make friends. All different types here and everyone is so friendly. A world of a difference...
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amother
Lavender


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 5:03 pm
Areas like raintree scare me because the crowd is so young. Even chestnut I find to be a very young mix.

I'd be scared of any area where the average age is under 40. I like areas with a large mix of ages.

Houses in my area of central don't sell for a ton, but they aren't the big fancy lakewood houses. they much simpler, which probably explains the crowd.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 5:11 pm
UQT wrote:
If you try out the shul and you are happy there it may work for you. Just make sure there are kids your children's age and they will have access to them. I would go crazy if my kids didn't have some sort of social life.


UQT, which shul do you mean?
I agree re. kids' social life but at this point I have to choose between my husband's sanity, literally, and kids' social life. It's not a very generous pool of options.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 5:20 pm
a
amother wrote:
Areas like raintree scare me because the crowd is so young. Even chestnut I find to be a very young mix.

I'd be scared of any area where the average age is under 40. I like areas with a large mix of ages.

Houses in my area of central don't sell for a ton, but they aren't the big fancy lakewood houses. they much simpler, which probably explains the crowd.


I happen to be under 40 but have always had friends much older than myself.

I don't mind a simpler house but I don't know if I can fit in my brood into a teeny-tiny house, and I need some kind of room for my infrequent but regular guests (non-frum family for YT) plus home office.

I actually don't want a fancy house. We were even considering bilevels if they are in the right place at the right price. My impression was though that anything in that area is 400+ for a small house in bad condition. It just seems very expensive if you add the necessary renovations, not fancy ones but just kitchen, carpeting etc.
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