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Help me find myself & my place in Lakewood
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 8:29 pm
amother wrote:
I live near the old shul on ridge. Big mix there. My dh used to daven there, he loves the rav but he switched shuls for a few reasons, mainly because he wanted to daven in a chassidish shul, though were not chassidish. It's a very nice neighborhood, though idk if it's anything special.
I know of a few people in khal villiams street, on Williams street (sunset/james area) who are always bringing home guests that they meet in shul or staying late to talk to the guests. It sounds really nice. It may be an expensive neighborhood though, I'm not sure.
Op, your personality actually sounds similar to mine, would love to meet you one day Smile


I heard about the rov of the old shul too, y husband met him in some place, and another person praised him. I'm not sure about the neighborhood though, money-wise and in terms of outdoor space.

Sunset James crowd - I was under impression that it is more well to do crowd, we definitely would not be able to be part of it. Or am I mistaken?

Eta: I'm sending you a virtual coffee and a muffin. Low-cal one if you happen to be on a diet ))
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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 9:22 pm
amother wrote:
I heard about the rov of the old shul too, y husband met him in some place, and another person praised him. I'm not sure about the neighborhood though, money-wise and in terms of outdoor space.

Sunset James crowd - I was under impression that it is more well to do crowd, we definitely would not be able to be part of it. Or am I mistaken?

Eta: I'm sending you a virtual coffee and a muffin. Low-cal one if you happen to be on a diet ))


Sunset and James is a newer development in the New England Village neighborhood. I'm talking Flintlock, Powderhorn, Heart E and W, Cannonball, that neighborhood.

I don't know what the prices there are, but when we were looking about 10 years ago, it was cheaper than other neighborhoods because there are a lot of older, smaller houses and they don't have basements.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 10:17 pm
glutenless wrote:
Sunset and James is a newer development in the New England Village neighborhood. I'm talking Flintlock, Powderhorn, Heart E and W, Cannonball, that neighborhood.

I don't know what the prices there are, but when we were looking about 10 years ago, it was cheaper than other neighborhoods because there are a lot of older, smaller houses and they don't have basements.


Oh, now I see what neighborhood you mean. It is lovely and serene but $$$. For ex, there is a house for sale now 1500sf or so for $500.
Recent sales were around 430, or 350 from 2 years agoso that would be about 450 now for a house that needs additional cash for fixing up.

I also have just found out that apparently busing from Jackson is locked to new families, only whoever was on the list before his year still gets it. New ones would have to drive to the nearest stop in Lakewood in the best case scenario. That seems to be an enormous inconvenience to have to drive everyone in and out daily, what with different dismissal times and locations. With the number of kids and locations I'm not sure carpools would even be an option.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 10:31 pm
debsey wrote:
It sounds like New England Village is closest to what you are looking for.

Someone suggested Toms River - you might like it there, it's definitely more reasonably priced, but AFAIK it's a very young crowd. There is a shul with a young, up and coming rav (who is from OOT, so it might be good for understanding that perspective, plus he's supposed to be a "mentsch").

Did you consider looking into the Albert area? It's a very mixed neighborhood that I hear is friendly, but I dk about rav and shul.


New England village seems nice but expensive, Albert seems very expensive in the end because you have to put in a lot of money into fixing, hose houses appear very old and run down.

We've been thinking about toms river, it's quite expensive but there were a few cheaper options there. I'm not sure if it's predominantly chassidim that are moving there. We're just very not chassidish, not even speaking Yiddish.
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sourstix




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 10:32 pm
it doesnt look like there will be bussing next year anyway for anyone. we voted not to have an increase in tax so we will be losing busing.

the schools will have to buy buses. so I guess you will get busing from the school.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 11:04 pm
sourstix wrote:
it doesnt look like there will be bussing next year anyway for anyone. we voted not to have an increase in tax so we will be losing busing.

the schools will have to buy buses. so I guess you will get busing from the school.


Hmm good point.

I was thinking more along the lines of having to schlep everyone in and out.

You mean we will end up paying for everything and then we'll be part of the route. That would be great.

You don't think they'll end up giving bussing like they did in the past two years, despite their threats? Remember last year we had this trial two day run of not taking buses because they threatened to cancel it for this year? In the end though they gave busing this year (I know, I know, some kids routes have not been picked up, and let's now see who's gonna be dropped in 2.5 weeks).

But sourstix, that's an excellent point. I'm sending a friendly cup of coffee your way as well, don't turn it down. I'm sending it not in a nosy way, I'm not even gonna ask anything about your family or other personal business.

I think I should open a coffee a coffee place thread here on imamother and I'll share some virtual cake with my imaginary friends. Mind you its my grandmothers recipes from the old country!

Don't tell my future shrink about my imaginary friends plz
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amother
Lemon


 

Post Tue, Feb 02 2016, 11:39 pm
I live in NY and have the same problem. We are looking into the area of Oak and Vine in Lakewood, does anyone know any more information?
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 1:38 am
amother wrote:
New England village seems nice but expensive, Albert seems very expensive in the end because you have to put in a lot of money into fixing, hose houses appear very old and run down.

We've been thinking about toms river, it's quite expensive but there were a few cheaper options there. I'm not sure if it's predominantly chassidim that are moving there. We're just very not chassidish, not even speaking Yiddish.


New England Village itself - not Sunset and James, but cannonball, powderhorn, etc, - the houses are small and run-down, but because the land is not huge, the prices are not crazy high.

Toms River has a yeshisivishe kehilla as well as a chassidshe one.

What about Spruce, Daniel, Marc, etc? That's a mixed, friendly neighborhood.

I'm not sure you're correct about Albert. I have friends who bought, customized their house, and got a great deal. But what was true 3 years ago, isn't necessarily true today.

I know when I bought my house, I spoke to a real estate agent specifically what I was looking for in a neighborhood, and she was great about advising me which areas to look into. In Lakewood, that's one of the functions of a real estate agent - to help you think about where you might be happiest and 'fit' best.
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amother
Crimson


 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 7:47 am
Lemon are u talking about the up and coming development on oak and vine?
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amother
Linen


 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 8:03 am
I'm not very familiar with this but I have heard that hearthstone is a lovely mixed community. All houses in Lakewood have become prohibitively expensive due to the large influx of people over the last two years.
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Notsobusy




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 9:24 am
I agree with Debsey, that if you haven't contacted a realtor yet, that's really what you need to do. With a good realtor you'll get a better idea of what neighborhoods will work for you and what the prices are. Just make sure you find a good one, you don't want one who specializes in certain neighborhoods or mostly new construction or only wants to talk about Jackson/Toms River. You need someone who will listen to what you want and try to help you find it.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 9:31 am
Looks like I'm late to the party here. Had a really busy afternoon yesterday, with like 3 different carpools what with play practice for my teens.....

OP, I'm in many ways in the same boat as you - every so often DH and I shmooze about selling our starter home and moving. We live in a neighborhood that has mostly people who are old enough to be my mother, or people closer to my daughters age - that's what you get in a small-home type of development - people sell as their families grow. We've had good years here but lately I'd love some company closer to our age range. The young people sell and move on and younger people move in....my 7 1/2 year old's best friend is moving in a few weeks and there's no one moving in who will have kids CLOSE to her age range - and boy is she a social butterfly. There are some families within walking distance, but not anyone we we are super-friendly with. Shul issues similar, too - nice crowd but not all the way our type, etc....

I have friends in the Spruce-Marc-Daniel area and am thinking of looking there. If I was a few years younger I'd probably look into Hearthstone, as someone mentioned - the crowd there is LOVELY - I have a SIL there who says the neighborhood is the nicest people ever.

I don't know if I will take the leap to move or not...I get PTSD just thinking what a move would entail...lots of pros and cons. I'm also a bit nervous because one of my close friends took the plunge and moved, and she loves her new house but is miserable in her new neighborhood.

But one thing I keep in mind - every neighborhood in Lakewood and everywhere is going to be a mix of personalities and types. There will likely always be the guy who yells at all the kids, and the guy like my DH who gives out the candy. There will be the woman who has everyone over and the one whose kids come and hang out till you've had it. There will be neighbors who are nosy and those who respect boundaries and space.

One more point I think of is, as others have mentioned, the busing situation. My girls have not had transportation this year as we live 2.2 miles from their high school. Next year my little one will probably not have transportation for the same reason - she will go to "the big Bais Faiga" and we'll be under 2 miles. If I move, it would be nice to find a place that would work for mandatory busing.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 2:44 pm
Chayalle wrote:

But one thing I keep in mind - every neighborhood in Lakewood and everywhere is going to be a mix of personalities and types. There will likely always be the guy who yells at all the kids, and the guy like my DH who gives out the candy. There will be the woman who has everyone over and the one whose kids come and hang out till you've had it. There will be neighbors who are nosy and those who respect boundaries and space.

.


I totally agree with this - it's not a "Lakewood" thing, it's a "human nature" thing.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 2:47 pm
Chayalle wrote:
There are some families within walking distance, but not anyone we we are super-friendly with. Shul issues similar, too - nice crowd but not all the way our type, etc....


We have no friends at all (see the OP), and crowd in shuls I can't even call nice - they really are not friendly at all to my husband. One place that is more or less friendly has grand drinking going on by kiddush, grand smoking parties on YT, and horrendous untzniusdik attire on the ladies side.

Chayalle wrote:
I have friends in the Spruce-Marc-Daniel area and am thinking of looking there. If I was a few years younger I'd probably look into Hearthstone, as someone mentioned - the crowd there is LOVELY - I have a SIL there who says the neighborhood is the nicest people ever.

same as above- no friends at all. I've noticed from your posts that you do have friends. I, however, have not been able to make any where I live. Spruce-Marc is not far from me at all but I still don't have friends here. And I wish to think I'm quite a nice person all in all.

Chayalle wrote:
I don't know if I will take the leap to move or not...I get PTSD just thinking what a move would entail...lots of pros and cons. I'm also a bit nervous because one of my close friends took the plunge and moved, and she loves her new house but is miserable in her new neighborhood.

Yep, I hear you.

Chayalle wrote:
But one thing I keep in mind - every neighborhood in Lakewood and everywhere is going to be a mix of personalities and types. There will likely always be the guy who yells at all the kids, and the guy like my DH who gives out the candy. There will be the woman who has everyone over and the one whose kids come and hang out till you've had it. There will be neighbors who are nosy and those who respect boundaries and space.

So where I am, and where I've been in NY - it's pretty homogeneous. They respect boundaries. A lot. To the point that the boundaries are impermeable.
And the yucky neighbor that I've been trying to get away from didn't just yell at the kids but was harassing them, and me. He just happens to be a true domestic violence case with all that it entails. That's one of the reasons we're petrified of moving yet to another complex for the risk of running into another nutcase like this.

Chayalle wrote:
One more point I think of is, as others have mentioned, the busing situation. My girls have not had transportation this year as we live 2.2 miles from their high school. Next year my little one will probably not have transportation for the same reason - she will go to "the big Bais Faiga" and we'll be under 2 miles. If I move, it would be nice to find a place that would work for mandatory busing.


That's the major point that prevents me from just picking up and moving to a relatively remote block in Jackson, without any frum neighbors. At least my husband will enjoy some serenity in his own lovely yard and won't suffer from "bad" attention, feeling like a living dead. Meaning people look through you like you are a tree or a bookcase.

By doing this I would essentially be giving up on a faint naive dream of finding some social circle, giving up shul for the family unless some new minyan is formed there after more families buy in the area. However, who knows - maybe I just have to let go of the place that is not good for us now, and Hashem has lovely new neighbors and a minyan in store for me in that remote place.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 2:51 pm
debsey wrote:
I totally agree with this - it's not a "Lakewood" thing, it's a "human nature" thing.


Again, where I have been for the past 12 years it's pretty uniform.
Everyone minds her own business to a certain degree and doesn't "do" friendships.
Those who have lived in such neighborhoods will understand.

I'm not even saying it is a Lakewood phenomenon, as I hear that some people do make friends in their neighborhoods. I just don't, in "mine". I'm not part of this crowd and never going to be. However, I do not know if "my" crowd exists. I feel like an ugly duckling here, and my husband feels like an invisible dead ugly duckling. Looking for our swan lake.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 2:58 pm
amother wrote:
Again, where I have been for the past 12 years it's pretty uniform.
Everyone minds her own business to a certain degree and doesn't "do" friendships.
Those who have lived in such neighborhoods will understand.

I'm not even saying it is a Lakewood phenomenon, as I hear that some people do make friends in their neighborhoods. I just don't, in "mine". I'm not part of this crowd and never going to be. However, I do not know if "my" crowd exists. I feel like an ugly duckling here, and my husband feels like an invisible dead ugly duckling. Looking for our swan lake.

I hear you and I lived in a neighborhood like this. I hated it, and can't believe I stayed there as long as I did.

I have much more friends where I live now, and I did not move in knowing anyone. Some neighborhoods are friendlier. That being said, you can't hold on to your PTSD of being in the "wrong" neighborhood and not fitting in when you move, or you won't make friends in your new neighborhood as well.

I still don't think this is unique to Lakewood. I think in every large community, there are small "subcultures" in neighborhoods.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 3:03 pm
" We have no friends at all (see the OP), and crowd in shuls I can't even call nice - they really are not friendly at all to my husband. One place that is more or less friendly has grand drinking going on by kiddush, grand smoking parties on YT, and horrendous untzniusdik attire on the ladies side. "

Now its a dead giveaway the shul you are talking about. That's likje thee worst place in town.. I get PTSD triggers just reading your posts.
I give you a lot of credit for sticking it out. If I was still stuck in that neighborhood, I'd probably leave the TV on and lock mnyself in my room all of shabbos.
My 19 yr old son will only spend shabbos with us in monsey or Baltimore, but won't come anywhere near Lakewood...
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 3:08 pm
Do you have friends in other neighborhoods in Lakewood, that you feel any sort of inclination to move near them? My focus on Spruce-Marc (whether I end up taking the plunge or not) is based on the fact that my best childhood friend lives in the area (I called her and she's ready to have me move in across the street, which would not be such a good idea - up the block or around the corner would be better Smile ), I have three cousins in the area, each of my teen DD's has at least two good friends, and my little one would likely have 10 in a week. Sounds like the shul could work for my DH in terms of type, though one thing we would miss alot is that DH really has a connection to the Rav of our present shul.

In terms of a particularly nasty neighbor, I hear you. I had one sort of unpleasant experience in the past, but B"H THEY moved! Also have one neighbor whose kids have been not-nice to mine and the parents are totally OTL, but B"H they are not right next door and my kids just learned to avoid them. Pray, maybe Hashem will make said neighbor suddenly decide that they want to move! But we cannot make every life decision living in fear of what might happen just because of this.

I also do think there's a certain mentality among some people in Lakewood (but not everyone) where their relationships remain where they come from instead of forming new ones based on where they are now. I've met people in my neighborhood who continue to socialize only with their friends from NY, or their relatives, and beyond their kids playing with the neighbors here and there and casual Shabbos afternoon conversation outside, they barely socialize for THEMSELVES, they NEVER knock on the door to visit and I don't get the feeling they would welcome that. When I first got married and moved here, it took me a while to figure this out and pick out who the people are who are not really interested in getting to know me, and those who were open to new friendships - a few moves and we became really good friends.

I guess if I would move, then for myself I'm not really ready to start all over (though I'm open to new friendships, but don't want to be stuck) so that's why my focus would be to a neighborhood where I already have some friendships, and so do my big girls (teens don't just strike up a friendship with kids on the block naturally, like younger kids do).

I do have some friends in my current neighborhood, but some of my close friends have moved in the past few years, and one is about to....still have 1-2 good friends I'd be sorry to leave....still not sure what I'll end up with, looking at the pros and cons.

Wishing you much Hatzlacha!
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 3:12 pm
naturalmom5 wrote:
" We have no friends at all (see the OP), and crowd in shuls I can't even call nice - they really are not friendly at all to my husband. One place that is more or less friendly has grand drinking going on by kiddush, grand smoking parties on YT, and horrendous untzniusdik attire on the ladies side. "

Now its a dead giveaway the shul you are talking about. That's likje thee worst place in town.. I get PTSD triggers just reading your posts.
I give you a lot of credit for sticking it out. If I was still stuck in that neighborhood, I'd probably leave the TV on and lock mnyself in my room all of shabbos.
My 19 yr old son will only spend shabbos with us in monsey or Baltimore, but won't come anywhere near Lakewood...

Oops, didn't mean to reveal the location. I didn't think where I am is soo unique lol ))

Which is the worst one though: the solemn place or the drinking one?!

I'm really not such a hero for staying here: it hasn't been intentional. I just try no to despare. But sometimes it is really hard, that's why this whole topic is a major rant. In real life I am not such a negative person who drags everyone's mood down. I'm just seriously at a low point now, and there's *nobody* who could advise me irl.

We're pretty much at the point of locking ourselves in now ). Dh is ready to move "to the woods", as he calls it. I'm sure it would be lonely but prob the way it is now is worse.

Busing uncertainty is what is stopping me now.
If there is no busing it is easily one hour each way morning and afternoon.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Feb 03 2016, 3:13 pm
amother wrote:
That's the major point that prevents me from just picking up and moving to a relatively remote block in Jackson, without any frum neighbors. At least my husband will enjoy some serenity in his own lovely yard and won't suffer from "bad" attention, feeling like a living dead. Meaning people look through you like you are a tree or a bookcase.

By doing this I would essentially be giving up on a faint naive dream of finding some social circle, giving up shul for the family unless some new minyan is formed there after more families buy in the area. However, who knows - maybe I just have to let go of the place that is not good for us now, and Hashem has lovely new neighbors and a minyan in store for me in that remote place.


But what about your kids? My little sister just bought a house in Jackson, but she just got married last summer, no kids yet...her hope is that by the time she has kids old enough to socialize there will be kids....people are slowly moving into the neighborhood there (on the other side of County Line Rd, oppposite the Pawnee area....) She can take risks at her stage of the game.

If you move somewhere with no options for your kids, you will be the master of ceremonies with regard to entertainment....personally, I'd rather cook, clean, and do laundry, with some entertainment on a quiet evening...but not to try to fill a social void.
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