Would like your input

mommy3b2c

Wed, Feb 24 2016, 8:53 am

I have two children that are old enough to help around the house. Two boys ages 7 and 9. In order to get them to help me any significant amount, I need to bribe them. Even with the bribe, they usually start crying and kvetching while they are helping.

Example: my cleaning lady cancelled on me last minute on a Thursday evening. I still had a ton of cooking to do. I also had laundry and a ton of cleaning, plus homework, supper time, bath time and a nursing baby. When the kids came home from school I told them what happened and that I would need their help for about an hour. I promised them that if they helped they would get to play computer games until bedtime. They agreed to help and behaved nicely for the first fifteen minutes. After that they started screaming and crying. I found myself getting so frustrated and desperate and using up all my energy on trying to deal with them. Two questions.1) Can kids that age be expected to help without being bribed? 2) why can't they act like a mentch even after they are bribed?

How do I change this pattern?

Faigy86

Wed, Feb 24 2016, 8:56 am

An hour of helping for a 7 and 9 yr old boy seems to be a lot. Was the reward in proportion to the amount of help you expected?
I'm also of the school of thought that children should learn to help out in a home because it is good for them, not because the parent can't function without it. They are not your cleaning help, nor is it their problem that you have a nursing baby. Can you ask your children to help? 100% Is it their responsibility to make your life work out when your cleaning help falls through? nope.

November

Wed, Feb 24 2016, 9:05 am

Faigy86 wrote:

This and this.
This #1: an hour seems too long to me. I might break things up into short tasks and give time on computer game or small treat (piece of chocolate) as those tasks are finished.
This #2: when they've reached the end of their fuses, I'd thank them profusely and do as much as I can knowing that not everything is going to get done.

mommy3b2c

Wed, Feb 24 2016, 9:43 am

Faigy86 wrote:

First of all, thanks for your input. I see that you as well as other posters agree that an hour for that age is too long. If that's the case, maybe I am just expecting too much of them.

A few more points for clarification:

I don't think the amount of help they did needed to take an hour. I think they were just kvetching and crying so much and I had to spend half the time reasoning with them. These were the jobs I gave them: clean up their room, unpack the groceries, put away a few odds and ends. After those things were done, the seven year old decided to help me peel vegetables. Does that seem like an unreasonable amount of work?

In regards to the reward, I told them they can have unlimited computer time. The sooner they finish helping, the sooner they can play till bedtime.

Also, I think youre being a little bit harsh in saying that it is not their responsibility to make my life work out. I didn't say that I couldn't function with out their help, just that I was really able to use it at that time. In actuality, it would have been a lot easier for me to give them the iPad and do all the work myself. The reason I asked for their help was because I want them to learn that sometimes they need to help out and pitch in to the household. Why couldn't I just let them each do one job and then go play? Because they are the type of kids that are either helping or making a huge mess or undoing all the work I just did. I don't usually rely on them, but this was just one of those situations.

cnc

Wed, Feb 24 2016, 10:09 am

mommy2b2c wrote:

The amount of help you requested is very reasonable.
I also agree with you that children should have some responsibility in the house.
I always tell my children that everyone in the family is expected to contribute. I wash their laundry and make them meals so they are sometimes expected to do things that don't directly benefit them only, but benefit the family as a whole. (Such as helping unpack groceries. Picking something up from the floor even if it doesn't belong to them etc.)

mummiedearest

Wed, Feb 24 2016, 10:18 am

op, I assume they aren't used to doing this on a regular basis. you were in crisis mode because the cleaning help didn't come. make a chore wheel for them and tell them they're going to do chores twice a week. unpacking groceries can always be their job, as can cleaning their room, which can include putting away their laundry. beyond basic chores, they can get rewarded for extras: doing the laundry (this includes putting in the machine, folding, etc.), helping cook, mopping a floor, cleaning the bathroom, organizing a drawer, etc. make a list and let them know what the rewards will be for the extras. as they get older, include more chores in the basic responsibilities.

imasinger

Wed, Feb 24 2016, 11:33 am

Nothing wrong with the request. It's all about deviation from the norm. And maturity as it pertains to delayed gratification.

There is a famous experiment where a psychologist leaves a young child in a room with a marshmallow on the table. If the marshmallow is still there when the tester returns some short time later, the child can have two marshmallows. If they eat it sooner, they just have the one.

The majority of children could not delay their gratification for the bigger payoff.

OP, if you had given the kids a smaller prize for a smaller chunk of the job, like, say, a 5 mnute screen break after the first 10 minutes of work, a 10 minute screen break after the next 10 minutes of work, etc, (usable either immediately, or banked), with a LIMITED total payoff (not unlimited till bedtime), you might have had a better chance of getting what you needed.

The other key is tons of recognition and praise for each task.

Not because it's so much for children of that age, but because it's outside of the usual expectations.

If you want to use this incident as a learning opportunity, and decide that you want to gradually increase the expectations, that's not a bad idea, either.

ra_mom

Wed, Feb 24 2016, 2:54 pm

mummiedearest wrote:

This. I think it's about getting used to helping out on a regular basis in little bits with no specific reward.
Start slowly even with something as simple as having them take off their dinner plates from the table. Have them put away the groceries all 3 of you together when the weekly order comes. Make it fun and quick. Once they have that down have them straighten up their room nightly even though you have cleaning help just so they have it becomes a part of them.
I aim for this too and am also working toward this.

chani8

Thu, Feb 25 2016, 5:21 am

I learned years ago that the housework is my responsibility. It's ok to ask for help, but it's help, not an obligation, so they can say no. If they dont want to do it, they dont have to. Ask for help, don't demand it.

When you get your hashkafa straight, then your attitude toward your helpers will be correct, and appreciated, and they'll become actual 'helpers' and even get self-esteem for choosing to be that way.

One child has much difficulty being a helper, at 16yo, so he needs encouragement to help. Certainly, I'd never punish or insult him about not helping. Instead, I build him up about how much his help is vital to the smooth running of the home.

mommy3b2c

Thu, Feb 25 2016, 6:04 am

chani8 wrote:

I disagree. My children are not allowed to say no to me. The housework is not their obligation, but kibbud av v'eim is. And they need to be contributing members of the household. Also, I'm not sure where you got that I punished them?

chani8

Thu, Feb 25 2016, 6:26 am

mommy2b2c wrote:

I didn't mean that you do, I meant that as an example that the 'tone' is important.

It is not against kibbud av v'am for a child to say no to their parents, if the parent is requesting and not demanding. If you demand something from your child that is so hard for them that they cannot do, you are placing a stumbling block before them, causing them to be oiver a d'oriasa. We dont want to set our kids up for that, right?

mommy3b2c

Thu, Feb 25 2016, 6:41 am

chani8 wrote:

I understand your point, but where do I draw the line? Should I never ask them for anything because they might say no and be chutzpadik? The whole reason I got into this mess is because I never ask them for anything because they kvetch and cry and it drives me crazy. I feel that Part of being machanech my children is teaching them to be productive members of a household. I may be a little late, but better late than never. That's why I came on here to ask for ideas and opinions.

saw50st8

Thu, Feb 25 2016, 6:48 am

I disagree that housework is owned by the parents. I think kids need to have responsibility and ownership. I know their limits though and try not to push them when they are tired/hungry/crabby etc.

I use Love and Logic quite a bit. So if they are refusing to help, I'll let them know that it's fine, but it likely means I won't have time or energy to do something for them. For example, I would say "That's fine, I understand you don't want to help clean up in the living room. That probably will mean I won't have the time or energy to make your favorite dish for shabbos. Oh well, we'll still have food, but not that yummy dessert."

Things like that. (or rather, when I'm parenting well LOL, sometimes I'm a total disaster)