Another tuition vent....

amother

cornflower

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 9:14 am

GreenEyes26 wrote:

It is not the same at all, because your coworkers are not being asked to supplement your benefits as you need more coverage.

They absolutely are. When the employer is working with underwriters or actuaries to determine employer and employee contributions for the plan, the fact that someone else has 10 children (or a spouse with cancer/ child with severe medical issues) will most definitely rate the entire group up. My contribution may end up being higher than if I was enrolled in a group of single healthy young people.

amother

Periwinkle

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 9:22 am

amother wrote:

First of all, what makes you think I have 8-10 kids?!
Secondly, I do not believe that anybody should use BC because they can not afford full tuition. Any Rav with whom my husband and I have discussed this has bemoaned the situation where people think that htey should use BC bec they cant afford tuition. Nebach. I do not believe that this is what Hashem wants of us.
Btw, on our current income , 54,000 dh, approx 22,000 myself, with all the normal costs of a family, eg mortgage, food, insurances etc , we actually cant afford to pay more than 1.5 -2 tuitions in full. Are you by any chance suggesting that becasue my husband gives his life and soul to be mechanech the children of the community that we should have a maximum of 2 or 3 children?! Because if you are suggesting that, then that is just ridiculous. You need to stop being jealous of the rebbeim whom you mentioned in your earlier post who shouldnt chas veshalom in your opinion get more than 3 free tuitions. Live and let live. Deal with your own finances and keep out of other peoples.
I know that I am being a little rude here, I jsut get so mad at some people's insistence on how bad it is that some rebbeim (my family excluded unfortunately) get free tuition. Being in chinuch is hard hard work, it is also very rewarding and exciting. It is my husband's life mission but the salary is not at all commensurate with the amount of hours, experience and qualifications. My husband for example has been in chinuch for about 20 years BH, he has a masters in education and a masters in special ed. It is a very poorly paid profession, we have major major financial worries all the time. don't bother being jealous please.

There is an argument to be made that rebbaim, who generally are low income, should not have the largest families in the neighborhood. I'm not saying that every rebbe has 10 kids and that all working people stop at 4. I'm just saying that in general rebbeim have large (sometimes very large) families that they can't afford. No one is saying a rebbe is only allowed to have 2 kids.

mommy3b2c

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 9:54 am

saw50st8 wrote:

I'm curious which posters you think display bad middos.

This is an emotionally charged topic because teachers feel they aren't paid enough, parents feel they are drowning under the obligation and everyone thinks someone else should solve the problem.

I'm not the type to start naming names. That would be mean. I just find the attitude of sticking your (general you) nose into other peoples pocket books and family planning very rude. Are there people who cheat the system? Sure. They will have to answer to G-d.

cnc

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 10:13 am

amother wrote:

I am tired of rebbeim complaining they aren't paid enough. I was a morah for 6 years getting paid 17k. That's not a lot but for the hours I had it was about 25$/hr. No where else would I be paid that wage. I had no schooling (a bachelors in Arts) so thats what you get and it was pretty good. You don't like the pay find another job. Find me somewhere that will pay you better.

Were you the regular Morah, or the assistant?
You never put in any hours after school? (Preparing arts and crafts, dealing with parents ...)

saw50st8

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 10:22 am

mommy3b2c wrote:

It's not that simple. Simply by not doing your best and giving up luxuries that people take for granted (I mentioned cleaning help as an example), you are dipping into someone else's pocket. That money that you splurged on and then take additional scholarship money to cover means more fundraising. Also, some schools raise tuition to cover the extra scholarhsip needs, so your lack of restriction is forcing me to pay more. It's not only your money that you are playing with.

The generic me and you obviously, not the specific.

princessleah

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 12:01 pm

I can't believe how little some of these Rebbeim and teachers are paid. It's criminal. We're sabotaging ourselves. If tuition gets so high that the only people who can afford it are bankers and lawyers, then everyone will become bankers and lawyers and there will be no teachers!

We need to make it attractive and honorable to go into klei kodesh, not something looked down upon by the community. You are putting your children's education into these people's hands. They deserve every benefit and tuition break for bucking the system and not going after the money. Seriously, give them everything.

cnc

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 12:20 pm

princessleah wrote:

I agree with you.

Would you want rebbeim and teachers for your children that took the job by default just because they can't find anything "better"?

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 12:27 pm

princessleah wrote:

Correct. The way people post on here is that you have to be wealthy to send to a Jewish school, or you have no right doing so. Lets say you arent wealthy, just scraping by, you can pay the tuition bill but would rather not pay the whole thing (like OP says), then you have every right to look down on others. Esp. Rabbeim and people with lots of kids.

I loved the comment that someone made that the person who makes $22,000 should just go into a more lucrative field. HELLO - We are not all blessed with the same intellect as each other. The world requires all types! Otherwise, who would be willing to perform those menial, low paying jobs, that WE NEED also! I am currently in school at the age of 35. And I work full time. And have kids. Never finished my BA degree so I've made peanuts my whole career. BUT - I am blessed with a husband who supports this. It isnt so simple to just tell people to get a better paying job.

The ones who cheat ruin it for those of us who dont cheat. I know. But - its disgusting to see people suggest that rabbeim and morahs go on BC and limit their children because people dont feel its important to support torah!

Our teachers earn garbage. The schools often dont provide insurance either, and also make them work half days often, to force them into being a part time employee. Working in the EJwish system FORCES our honored teachers to humiliate themselves at the welfare office, year after yer, re-certifying for govt health insurance. Is that right? Is this how we treat our honored teachers? A half day teacher can not get 2 half day jobs - school jobs dont accommodate a schedule like that.

I think these people so look down on Rabbeim, Morahs, and the other people who perform such necessary jobs - they are the ones who need to go on BC - limit them to one child each, to limit the amount of children who they will be passing this attitude onto!

amother

Cyan

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 12:35 pm

princessleah wrote:

I am the amother who first wrote about my husband the overworked adn underpaid rebbi, decrying the poster's suggestion that we go on bc and have max 3 free tuitions. I did say that we get no free tuitions.
Thank you for your post, princessleah, thank you for validating me.

To the poster who said that my husband should leave chinuch and get a better paid job, well thanks, dont you want your kids to have good rebbeim?
to the poster who said I should go out and get a better paid job, thanks for hte suggestion, maybe if you would kindly fund my college (I grew up in a community where college was pas nisht for a woman) and support my family the missing 22,000 for my college years, then of course I will immeediately look into college courses to train in a better paying field.

this whole thread is kind of ridiculous, just live adn let live. dont look at what others have, just do your own personal best , be ethical ,honest and have high morals, and jsut focus on doing what Hashem wants of you. If the posters bashing me knew me, they would see how our lives are so focused on helping others, being mechanech others , how much we give up for the sake of being in chinuch, HAPPILY and with the knoweldge thtat we are doing what Hashem wants of us. And we are not idealogical teenagers/early 20s, we are in our 40s...

amother

Plum

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 1:03 pm

amother wrote:

I make $65.00 an hour and do put in work outside the classroom. So what? DH is on salary and the calls start before "work". I am dedicated and effective. You do what needs to be done to get the job right.

amother

Plum

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 1:11 pm

mommy3b2c wrote:

That is simplistic when people are cheating now, and others are struggling to pay for that. The answer to the current anguish is not a vague "(t)hey will answer to Hashem." The relief has to come sooner and be more concrete.

saw50st8

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 1:32 pm

amother wrote:

Amother, $22,000 for a full time job is a very low salary. It's almost minimum wage. There are many careers that you can train for that will pay more than that. I don't know what your skill set is, but a phlebotomist for example is quick to train for and earn about $15-16/hr ($30-32k). That's an incremental step up. There are plenty of other careers you can pursue if you want to and many training programs have evening and weekend classes. You are not alone in your struggle.

No one is looking too deep into your finances. Most people I know survive with a chinuch salary by having the other parent have a more lucrative job. The math on two low salaries doesn't work out without heavily relying on tzedaka. No one was bashing you (unless you took my question as a "bash" which it wasn't), just making an observation that your salary is extremely low and you can retrain to maximize your contribution. That's up to you to decide if you want to implement any change.

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 1:48 pm

cnc wrote:

Were you the regular Morah, or the assistant?
You never put in any hours after school? (Preparing arts and crafts, dealing with parents ...)

After school hours are unpaid. How much time you take to prep doesn't count towards your salary... EVERY job practically has time that you work without getting paid. Therapists write notes, do consultations (With more experienced professionals, clients psychiatrists, other agencies if part of the picture etc) and more without getting an extra cent. But they have to legally and because it makes for a better end result.

amother

Burlywood

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 1:59 pm

amother wrote:

That is quite insulting. I just pointed out that for every child someone has that goes for free, SOMEONE has to pay for. If the automatic "every chinuch child goes for free" was taken away, then you would have to do the math like we all do. Some of us who work full time go down to the welfare office as well. If you made the decision to have that life that is part of the package. (But you are spared the wrath of tuition scholarship committees which the rest of us need to decide to face). The schools, after the first 3 free (at a time! So when your 8th grader goes to 9th, your 4th kid in 2nd will be free that year....) should then allow scholarships based on pure need. Not taking chinuch backgrounds into account. I could theoretically be poorer in terms of less money for tuition for my entire family than you are for the remaining 2 kids...

amother

Cyan

Tue, Mar 22 2016, 2:00 pm

saw50st8 wrote:

Thank you saw50st8s,
I am the amother you are talking to. I appreciate your writing/talking kindly Smile

Yes, 22,000 is very low. My job is not completely full time, I am home just before my kids get home BH. But at this stage, wehn I still have a couple of little kids (baby and 3 yr old), childcare would be even more if I worked full time.
Whatever, the fact is, that one day when all my kids are in school all day, I will IYH be looking to re-train, I just cant see how I could manage to re-train at the same time as working 8.30 - 3.00 and running a household...

I didnt feel that you specifically were bashing me, I am just upset by daft comments about BC and that rebbeim do not have the right to have big families although their low income is becasuse of their selflessness in giving, giving, giving to the community.
But dont worry everyone, I know my place in life Wink

we dont spend more than we have, we live ultra frugally, shop all sales, and make home made simple MMs on purim.... and btw, in my community, rebbeim do not get all the benefits that a pp posted about, free groceries, reduced camp etc. As a matter of fact, on the years that my husband cant find a summer job other than tutoring here and there, my kids dont go to camp (which is very hard for kids aged 7 - 15 imho) because we cannot afford it. The only time in our lives we have ever taken tzedaka in any sense, has been scholarships for reduced tuition.