S/O anything wrong with non Jewish music/songs?

amother

Puce

Sun, Mar 27 2016, 11:46 pm

There's a thread going on here with suggestions for uplifting songs - jewish and non jewish.
I googled a bunch of them and found some I like.
I would really like to download them to listen to but in the back of my mind I seem to remember learning something about how since they didn't not come from a jewish source they can have a bad effect on you.
I've gone to a yeshivish school and was wondering was this one of the things the just said because that's the type of school I went to, or is there really a source for this?

tichellady

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 12:26 am

Non Jews and Jews are both created in the image of GD so don't see why something a non Jews creates has to be tainted. There are Jews and non Jews who create inappropriate things and Jews and non Jews who create holy, beautiful things.

amother

Seafoam

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 12:43 am

There is a source for this. A person puts his deep essence into the music he composes. When a person listens to music, he is connecting to the song writers essence. So when you are listening to a non Jew's song, you are connecting to his inner soul- which comes from kelipa. Whereas when we listen to Jewish songs, composed by a yid, we are connecting to the composers neshama.

SYA

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 12:51 am

As per the Bal HaTanya music is the pen of the soul.

I learnt that the thoughts and emotions of the composer are imbued within the song and are transferred to the listener.

Here is a link from chabad.org on this topic.
http://m.chabad.org/library/ar.....n.htm

5mom

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 12:57 am

Do you have any idea how much "Jewish" music has its origins elsewhere? Shlomo Carlebach aside, there hasn't been original Jewish music since the Leviim sang in the Mikdash.

Music (not lyrics) is neutral. I am sure that clothing designers put their neshama into their work, and you don't see yeshivish women wearing only Jewish designed clothing. Beauty is beauty.

tichellady

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 12:58 am

SYA wrote:

Ok but non Jews have souls too so I'm not sure why anyone who read this article would assume that we can't listen to music non Jews composed.

amother

Goldenrod

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 1:01 am

The Maharal, Ramchal, and Rav Tadok all write about this- I will bli neder look up the exact sources for you. they don't per say say that non jewish music is assur, just explain the power of music on the neshama and the fact that the essence of the composer and his thoughts at the time are transferred at the time of composition. That is part of why music is so powerful.

At the end of the day I don't know how lofty the thoughts of contemporary jewish music composers are, but I do think that it is important to steer away from non jewish music with christian themes ( may be an avoda zara problem) such as You Raise Me Up ( the you is J-sus)
and with cursing/ explicit themes.

I personally do not listen to non-jewish music, but have in the past, and come from a yeshivish background

amother

Seafoam

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 1:02 am

5mom wrote:

We are quoting things from real sources, by real jewish leaders, we didn't make this up. Would you like to argue with the baal tanya? You don't have to listen to only jewish music if you don't want to, but don't mock! This is what it says in seforim. Whoever would like to be machmir, great!

tichellady

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 1:11 am

amother wrote:

I think her point is just that there isn't actually very much music that is authentically Jewish. I don't think she's arguing with the Baal Tanya, but she's saying that if you follow this opinion there is very little music you are left listening to and what you call " Jewish music" may have non Jewish origins

amother

Mauve

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 1:20 am

Jewish music, even zemiros niggunim, is heavily influenced by local styles of wherever Jews lived in golus. There are some authentically and uniquely Jewish tunes, but as others have said, very few melodies qualify.

I find nonjewish music very honest about things like pain and self-expression, almost like a prayer in english. Most Jewish songs about pain talk about golus and historical persecution, the Jews as a nation. Sometimes I want to cry about me. Or sing about how I, not just klal yisroel, can survive and make it.

I avoid meaningless "lust" songs, obviously.

5mom

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 3:07 am

First, a philosophical point of the Baal HaTanya isn't a psak halacha, it's a worldview, and not one that is shared by all gedolim.

And second, the view of the Baal HaTanya isn't even shared by his own chassidim. When Lubavitchers sing Haaderes vehaemuna to the tune of La Marseillaise, they have apparently decided that the beauty of the music overrides its revolutionary origins.

(Edited for spelling.)

DrMom

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 6:28 am

As others have pointed out, so much Jewish liturgical music comes from non-Jewish sources.

I really can't see how music without lyrics can be harmful, no matter what the source.

And as for music with lyrics, it seems the lyrics should matter more than the religious affiliation of the composer or lyricists or singer. By the way, which one is responsible for imparting the "Jewishness" to "Jewish music?"

- "White x-mas" was written by Irving Berlin -- a Jew. Is that "Jewish music?"
- The Beastie Boys are all Jewish. Is "You Gotta Fight for Your Right to Party" considered soul-uplifting "Jewish music?"
- Mozart wasn't Jewish. Is Serenade in G Minor harmful to my soul?

gp2.0

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 7:10 am

Fashion designers put their heart and soul into their clothing lines. Does that mean you can only wear clothes designed by someone Jewish? Hmm. Same goes for furniture, appliances, technology. They're all designed by people who put their heart and soul into them. Whoops.

amother

Saddlebrown

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 8:39 am

amother wrote:

I don't know about you, but I know that there is not every 'yid' I would want to connect to through music just because he/she is a 'yid'. The people carrying this title have sadly not always lived up to what it means to be a yid, and I can certainly say that many 'Jewish songs' were created by 'yidden' with perverse mindsets, harsh insides, and a lack of erlichkeit. My opinion on non-Jewish songs/singers is irrelevant, but please don't be so naive as to think that just because someone is a yid, you want to connect to his/her neshama in the profound language of music.

theta1870

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 4:30 pm

[quote="DrMom"
- The Beastie Boys are all Jewish. Is "You Gotta Fight for Your Right to Party" considered soul-uplifting "Jewish music?"
[/quote]

May not FFYR but surely No Sleep Til Brooklyn resonates with some of our in-town members with new babies. Very Happy

amother

Firebrick

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 6:23 pm

Music is the language of the neshama. I learnt (in a right wing, yeshivish school) that in heaven, the angels converse only in song. So being that the neshama is from heaven, it connects in a very real and deep way to music. To quote a teacher of mine, if I listen to certain non-Jewish songs, I may soon find myself "desiring 16 gorgeous women." It's a subconscious thing.

And it's not just non-Jewish songs that are an issue. If a Jewish person with morals that you don't agree with sings a song that you listen to every other day, his neshama- his morals and desires, will affect and influence yours in small ways that gradually build up into changing your desires and morals in a significant way.

I agree that it is a big challenge to avoid listening to music by immoral people...

"I find nonjewish music very honest about things like pain and self-expression, almost like a prayer in english. Most Jewish songs about pain talk about golus and historical persecution, the Jews as a nation. Sometimes I want to cry about me. Or sing about how I, not just klal yisroel, can survive and make it. "

I agree one hundred percent with the amother quoted in the above paragraph. Very eloquently written, amom! Smile

It's a tremendous struggle, but its a worthwhile one.

Last edited by amother on Wed, Nov 14 2018, 7:55 pm; edited 1 time in total