S/O anything wrong with non Jewish music/songs?

jade

Mon, Mar 28 2016, 7:25 pm

Ok but I do not personally know the morals of Jewish, frum singers either. Appearances can be very deceiving. For example, some decades ago I was (due to my profession) privy to the details of the divorce of a frum singer and believe you me, desiring 16 gorgeous women is not s bad compared to his actual actions, never mind subconscious desires. But his music was considered acceptable in the yeshivish household I knew. Bottom line is, if spirituality in music is a concern, looking at lyrics and tune makes sense. When it comes to mystical concerns - honestly, there may be something to it but we really have no way of knowing the depths of a person's soul.

PinkFridge

Tue, Mar 29 2016, 9:02 am

amother wrote:

Just to add to all this, the same way a church can be turned into a shul, if there's nothing wrong with a tune, only its composer and original lyrics, it can easily be made "kosher."

There are two things here: "redeeming" or adapting outside music for Jewish use, and listening to non Jewish music. No judgments implied, just clarifying.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Apr 03 2016, 12:54 am

Do any of you listen to the Maccabeats or KippaLive? They take non Jewish music and either change the lyrics, or sing it as it is because the words are appropriate and uplifting.

Personally, if the lyrics are kosher, I'll listen to it, regardless of origins.

Anyone ever heard of the term "Righteous Gentiles"?

My favorite these days is "Brave".

Snickers18

Sun, Apr 03 2016, 1:42 am

marina wrote:

here's a secular song that I am playing over and over in my house, hoping that my kids will absorb its message and live their lives according to the lyrics. That also happens.
Hi

Marina, I find that watching Mr. Rogers serves the same purpose.

ETA I obviously think parental example is most important but wanted to throw that suggestion out there.

PinkFridge

Sun, Apr 03 2016, 8:26 am

marina wrote:

here's a secular song that I am playing over and over in my house, hoping that my kids will absorb its message and live their lives according to the lyrics. That also happens.

For those of us who don't want to go through the Get Smart-like steps of overriding the you tube but whose inquiring minds are really curious, can you tell us what song that is?

amother

Smokey

Sun, Apr 03 2016, 9:00 am

I would just like to point out also that many singers have songwriters. Just because the person singing it may have questionable morals, it doesn't mean the person who wrote it does.

Also, in regards to the music itself (and not the lyrics) I have heard that some Rebbes would send people to listen outside churches and bring back the music to be made in Niggunim.

Additionally, desiring 16 gorgeous women? If you are listening to the music posted on the original thread I would be very concerned if you suddenly started desiring 16 gorgeous women.

amother

Smokey

Sun, Apr 03 2016, 9:03 am

PinkFridge wrote:

For those of us who don't want to go through the Get Smart-like steps of overriding the you tube but whose inquiring minds are really curious, can you tell us what song that is?

I googled the lyrics for you:
To be humble, to be kind.
It is the giving of the peace in your mind.
To a stranger, To a friend
To give in such a way that has no end.

We are Love
We are One
We are how we treat each other when the day is done.
We are Peace
We are War
We are how we treat each other and Nothing More

To be bold, to be brave.
It is the thinking that the heart can still be saved
And the darkness can come quick
The Dangers in the Anger and the hanging on to it.

We are Love
We are One
We are how we treat each other when the day is done.
We are Peace
We are War
We are how we treat each other and Nothing More

Tell me what it is that you see
A world that’s filled with endless possibilities?
Heroes don’t look like they used to, they look like you do.

We are Love
We are One
We are how we treat each other when the day is done.
We are Peace
We are War
We are how we treat each other and Nothing More

PinkFridge

Sun, Apr 03 2016, 9:05 am

Thanks, Smokey.
I don't know the source, and I wouldn't listen to Christian music, say. I have respect for it and their coreligionists who do: it's certainly better than something like (making this up) &$&#&%%% by the *!(!)_#*#&*s.

amother

Smokey

Sun, Apr 03 2016, 9:15 am

PinkFridge wrote:

it's certainly better than something like (making this up) &$&#&%%% by the *!(!)_#*#&*s.

I don't think anyone here is saying that explicit music isn't harmful, we are talking about the inspiring ones with good messages.
Not all secular music is vulgar.

gp2.0

Sun, Apr 03 2016, 9:58 am

I don't listen to secular music because it's inspiring with good messages, I listen because it's REAL. Example: kelly clarksons recent song piece by piece - about how she recovered after her father abandoned her as a kid. That's powerful, real stuff we'll never see in Jewish music.

And all I remember is your back
Walking towards the airport, leaving us all in your past
I traveled fifteen hundred miles to see you
Begged you to want me, but you didn't want to

But piece by piece he collected me
Up off the ground where you abandoned things, yeah
Piece by piece he filled the holes
That you burned in me at six years old
And you know,
He never walks away
He never asks for money,
He takes care of me
He loves me
Piece by piece he restored my faith
That a man can be kind and a father could... stay

And all of your words fall flat
I made something of myself and now you wanna come back
But your love—it isn't free, it has to be earned
Back then I didn't have anything you needed so I was worthless

But piece by piece he collected me
Up off the ground, where you abandoned things, yeah
Piece by piece he filled the holes
That you burned in me at six years old
And you know,
He never walks away
He never asks for money,
He takes care of me
'Cause he loves me
Piece by piece he restored my faith
That a man can be kind and a father could stay

gallie657

Sun, Apr 03 2016, 7:06 pm

I'm sure I'm not casting the first stone, but every time I go to a "Bais Yaakov" production I hear music and ideas copied right out of the movies and right off the radio. I think it's embarrassing for the woman who made the production to be publicly thanked after, because the elephant in the room is that this "holy" Rebbetzin sat through hours of Frozen, Beyonce, and other shtus to make this production happen. Wouldn't it be cheaper and less time-consuming to bring in a non jewish writer, a producer and a director to mix pop culture and serve it with a Yiddishe tahm?

amother

Blue

Mon, Apr 04 2016, 12:09 am

It sounds like songs with meaning touches you, it touches your soul. That is why Kosher music is so important. The Question is what is Kosher music? The songs taken from Goyshe places with Jewish words added, are they Kosher? Good question. A Tzadik who has the knowledge of the source of a song, He can add words and make it holy. I doubt songs coming from unholy places can be made Kosher. I have heard that a niggun is even holier then a song as its not limited by words. May we all be uplifted in song and dance as we clean for Pesach.

amother

Mauve

Mon, Apr 04 2016, 12:31 am

amother wrote:

Honesty touches me.

Let's have some real relevant emotion in Jewish music.

Let me hear a song like AKAPella's "Sunshine in the Rain" about divorcees and not just the appropriate tragedies like widowhood; songs like Kelly Clarkson's "Piece by Piece" about fathers abandoning children; her "Because of You" about the effects of trauma; Sam Smith's "I'm Not the Only One" about the spouse who finds out she's been betrayed.

Then I'll listen to tzadikim and their holy tunes.

Crying

DrMom

Mon, Apr 04 2016, 2:15 am

amother wrote:

There's so much beautiful Jewish music out there - can't understand why one would even want to associate with secular music which cam have a bad influence

That's like saying, "Greek is so delicious and healthy. I can't understand why anyone would even want to taste anything other than Greek food, which might not be as healthy or delicious."

If you feel that *all* non-Jewish music is -- *by definition* -- a bad influence, then there's not much to say except that I disagree with you. But if not, it comes down to pinpointing the source of this "bad influence." Nasty lyrics? Okay, avoid secular music with bad lyrics. There is no reason to avoid all secular music.

And BTW, not all Jewish music is so great, aesthetically/artistically.

We say brachot for non-Jews with significant achievements. Obviously, our sages understood there is much secular knowledge and scholarship to learn appreciate from non-Jews. And since (again) even the most insular Jewish communities use liturgical music borrowed from their surrounding non-Jewish cultures, this discussion is actually quite silly.

greenfire

Mon, Apr 04 2016, 3:20 am

5mom wrote:

First, a philosophical point of the Baal HaTanya isn't a psak halacha, it's a worldview, and not one that is shared by all gedolim.

And second, the view of the Baal HaTanya isn't even shared by his own chassidim. When Lubavitchers sing Haaderes vehaemuna to the tune of La Marseillaise, they have apparently decided that the beauty of the music overrides its revolutionary origins.

(Edited for spelling.)

take the story for what you will - but there was a reason behind it ...

http://www.shmais.com/articles.....achta