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Its not fair😭😭 joint account vs separate
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amother
Babypink


 

Post Tue, Apr 05 2016, 3:14 pm
The way you are doing this will not work.

Halachically, what you earn belongs to your husband, unless you plan on fully supporting yourself. If you would like him to spend his money on you, than the other way is also true. (what you want is for him to pay the bills I.e. support you and you then keep your money also, great idea, if he has enough money)

However, also halachically, he has to support you and part of that is to use family funds to buy you clothing and jewelry ACCORDING TO HOW MUCH MONEY HE HAS, for yom tov. It sounds like you are tight financially and that is causing him stress.

You don't sound used to such financial constraints.

Only solution: BUDGET, BUDGET, BUDGET, figure out real expenses first, the musts, and then how much is available for "extras"
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amother
Aqua


 

Post Tue, Apr 05 2016, 10:33 pm
amother wrote:
Yes he asks me if he can buy a drink. Also I have my own account but now whats the point bc I dont even put money into it. We needed fridge and freezer for when we move house. Guess who paid it? Me with my savings since I was 12 yrs old. I didnt tell him. I just said my parents bought it.

Don't try to be a martyr, "sacrificing" yourself for the family and then feeling resentful that nobody appreciates your selflessness. Like others said, you should've been open about this, but I just want to point out that this kind of behavior can happen with things unrelated to money, and it's never a path to happiness.
Work on being open with each other. Give joyfully when you want to give. Be honest with your needs when you want something or don't want to give something.
I have a joint account too and we never quiz each other on minor purchases. More than the money, this is about developing trust and being honest and openhearted with each other.
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PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 7:08 am
OP, the simplest thing would be to use the free ATM card the bank gives you, but there's no reason not to take the money out each month and put it someplace you don't look everyday (prevents using it for household staples). You can spend it all each month or save it up, but as everyone has said, you and dh need to sit down and decide what your joint and individual financial needs are. Clothes are a need in certain circumstances and a want in others. Shoes wear out, bras wear out, his undershirts get stained, you have a family simcha, etc. Certain families identify food X as a need for Shabbat while it's a want for others. The two of you need to work out an understanding before you have kids (or really disturbed sb).
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The Happy Wife




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 7:20 am
amother wrote:
Observer you are right. I shouldnt have lied but I felt I needed to then bc we are financially struggling and I didnt want to take from "our account"


I'm just wondering, since needs vs wants seems to be a big point of contention with you and your husband, was this also a case of you viewing fridge and freezer as a need and your husband viewing it as a want?

I mean, was there actually no fridge at all in the place you were moving to, because no matter how tight finances are I can't imagine that your husband was willing to completely forgo refrigeration. I think it's considered a basic necessity nowadays. Especially when there was money in an account to pay for it.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 7:31 am
I'm so sorry this is happening.
It's hard when you are struggling with the finances.
And IMO this is what it's all about.
Do you and your DH have a rav you can talk to.
It needs to be someone that deals with these types of issues not just a posek.
Your DH needs to understand that honoring you is equivalent to honoring the Shechina, and that is done so physically, emotionally, spiritually, AND financially.
The discretionary fund is a great idea, but IMO this should be done with a Rav.
My DH, a rav, often deals with these issues. He always suggests budgeting a discretionary fund, the wife gets double (or more if the budget allows) since:
A. It is the husband's responsability to provide for the wife (financially).
B. Women have greater needs to beautify themselves.

He also suggests that the husband joins his class on The Garden of Peace. This is the 5th time around and attendance has grown from 8 to 50.

As the saying goes, "Happy wife, happy life."
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 9:27 am
I think we've repeated it over & over on this site ... there are many reasons to have separate accounts

nobody should be coddling the family emergencies with lies however, if you can't afford a refrigerator don't lie that your mother bought it ... the truth will come out & hurt you & your marriage later

monies you earned since you were 12 should remain in your own private account beginning & end of that discussion.

monies you make while married should be put into joint account ... however, everyone should be allotted a certain amount per month or week to be taken out and placed wherever you want ... under you pillow - in a private account for rainy day - or for pms chocolate, nails, sheitel, et cetera for the gals - booze, seforim, new hat, etc for the guys
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 9:35 am
We always had one joint account and if I needed something I would ask and my DH would let me know if we have the funds for that or not. When I purchased my house, I opened my own account as well (my DH would join he is just too lazy to come into the bank to take care of that part) and the mortgage expense gets fully paid out of my account. My paychecks get deposited into that account, so any "extra" money left over AFTER the mortgage expense is paid , I have as extra change to do what I want with it. All of our other expenses get paid out of the joint account which is tied to a VERY STRICT budget. Not always do I have extra spending money and I accept it for what it is. But I'm married for 15 years and just opened my own account last year. We always had a joint account and it was never an issue for me. My DH wont allow me to have a cleaning lady , he considers it a "want" as well, even though to me it's a "need" ...but because we stick to a budget, we would have to take money from "food" a true need in order to pay a cleaning lady...so it becomes a "want" technically...
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 9:40 am
Bizzydizzymommy wrote:
My DH wont allow me to have a cleaning lady , he considers it a "want" as well, even though to me it's a "need" ..


The wording here bugs me. A husband should not be 'allowing'. Maybe it would be better to say he convinced you it's not in the budget?
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 9:41 am
Tablepoetry wrote:
The wording here bugs me. A husband should not be 'allowing'. Maybe it would be better to say he convinced you it's not in the budget?


You are right, He explained to me that it's not something we can do , that it's not in the budget....
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Tablepoetry




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 9:44 am
I agree with everyone. It's demeaning and unhealthy to ask everytime one wants to buy a soda or do one's nails.....unless one is truly on the brink of poverty and every dollar will make or break the budget. In which case you need to increase your earning potential asap.

We have a joint account, each with our own credit cards. I buy what I feel our budget can handle. I would never think to ask if I can buy something under $30.
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thunderstorm




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 9:47 am
Tablepoetry wrote:
I agree with everyone. It's demeaning and unhealthy to ask everytime one wants to buy a soda or do one's nails.....unless one is truly on the brink of poverty and every dollar will make or break the budget. In which case you need to increase your earning potential asap.

We have a joint account, each with our own credit cards. I buy what I feel our budget can handle. I would never think to ask if I can buy something under $30.


I dont necessarily ask for the money. But when I charge my credit card, even if it's $10.00 I let my DH know so he can know exactly what's going on , since he handles paying the bills
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amother
Burgundy


 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 9:57 am
Tablepoetry wrote:
The wording here bugs me. A husband should not be 'allowing'. Maybe it would be better to say he convinced you it's not in the budget?

Its cultural
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Maryann




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 10:01 am
Wow ok I'm not sure what to think, under 100$ I wouldnt even THINK of asking husband...? And we r not rich at all why would u ask ur husband I'm confused marriage is not a jail ??
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amother
Burgundy


 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 10:19 am
amother wrote:
Its cultural


No need to hug me, it's not my culture.
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2cents




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 11:30 am
My husband takes care of deposits and credit card payments, so he appreciates knowing if I've charged an unusually large amount that month, or if I have an unusually large expense coming up.

I can't even imagine having to tell him (or ask him!!??) every time it strikes my fancy to buy, say, a new lipstick or bottle of nail polish, or for every random mani or takeout sandwhich.

If I'm buying a new watch, for example, upwards of $200, I'd tell him. If he was feeling that the bills were paricularly high that month, he may suggest or ask if it can wait-- but that would be the extent of it.

Eta: currently, I work part time. But this was our system even when he was in kollel and j stayed home with the baby (no support, btw).
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amother
Cyan


 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 11:37 am
Op here. Well the thing is if I dont have cash on me il have to use the debit card which means hes able to ask me what is £.. He isnt soo tough but at the moment we are just building our income with no support from parents etc. He is the perfect hub for me but sometimes I think ahhhhhh I waana be single Smile I think its normal to think like that at the beginning. Married 9 months. Its hard to share. I must admit it. What can I do to fix the problem?? Its MY problem no??
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PAMOM




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 1:40 pm
You sit down and talk it out. You figure out your budget month by month, allowing for emergencies (car or appliance repair ), and de ice how much is reasonable to split for personal discretionary spending. You discudd what is a need to each of you and recognize you may disagree. If the disagreement is major, you discuss it with a Rav.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 1:45 pm
amother wrote:
The way you are doing this will not work.

Halachically, what you earn belongs to your husband, unless you plan on fully supporting yourself. If you would like him to spend his money on you, than the other way is also true. (what you want is for him to pay the bills I.e. support you and you then keep your money also, great idea, if he has enough money)

However, also halachically, he has to support you and part of that is to use family funds to buy you clothing and jewelry ACCORDING TO HOW MUCH MONEY HE HAS, for yom tov. It sounds like you are tight financially and that is causing him stress.

You don't sound used to such financial constraints.

Only solution: BUDGET, BUDGET, BUDGET, figure out real expenses first, the musts, and then how much is available for "extras"



OP, if you have a Halachic question, please ask your LOR and not Rabbi imamother.

I actually recently had a question about money (it involved kids chipping in for a gift and someone in the family making statements about kids not halachically owning money) and we asked a Shaila about this. Rav told us that R' David Feinstein taught him that women and children can Halachically own money in today's times, based on various cultural norms and Dina D'Malchusah.
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Miri7




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 1:46 pm
Fights over money are a major cause of marital trouble. You should both sit down and work out a system that works for you. Make a budget, figure out what you have "extra" and talk about the things that each of you would like to spend on. Maybe he wants to have $x to spend a month without answering for it. Coffee, soda, etc. And you want $y to spend. Do you want to have your own account for your spending money? Or do you want to keep it in cash?

Talk about how you will plan for and cover occasional regular expenses (shoes for kids, dentist visits, etc) and then more major expenses (dishwasher, car repairs, etc). Talk about a savings plan.

There is no one right way to do it - each couple figures out what works for them. The important thing is being open, honest, and feeling like you are equal partners in handling household finances.

You should come clean about spending your savings on the dishwasher. It's important to be honest about the money.
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chicco




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 06 2016, 2:51 pm
Marriage is a joint union. That means that there is a shared responsibility. A main responsibility in a marriage is the finances. Every couple has to find the methods that work for them- but the idea is the same. There are bills and there is (hopefully) money coming in. Regardless of who is bringing in what, both the husband and the wife have to work together to determine how the money can be spent. When people say they have to ask permission from their spouses- in most cases and in a healthy marriage, I think they are really saying- I don't just spend money without discussing it first to make sure we can afford it. In a super healthy marriage where the husband and wife have common goals and are working together, they usually don't have to discuss every purchase because they are sensitive to the common goal.

OP if you are being conscientious of your budget, and you believe that you do have money for extras, I understand your frustrations. However, if you are being childish, and would rather get your nails done then pay for genuine necessities, your husband may have a point. Either way you guys need to get on the same page and work together to find out a system that works for you and that is realistic.

Good luck!
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