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Vacation?
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 12 2016, 3:08 pm
IMHO, vacations are a luxury and not a necessity. If you need to decompress, do a staycation.

Conservative advice is to have at least 3 months of liquid savings in the bank. This would be in addition to the amounts recommended for retirement.

Vacations are like any other form of discretionary expense - if you can afford it because you have funded everything else including savings, then it's fine. But certainly not something to charge or pay for in lieu of anything else.

And it's never wise to anticipate higher income. Conservative advice actually is to save any raises - or at least a good percentage of a raise rather.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Tue, Apr 12 2016, 6:38 pm
shaimac1 wrote:
I hope this helps and good luck in the future! If you do go on that vacation "cash flow" it don't put it on a credit card!


Thank you. Why do you say not to put it on a credit card? As long as we can afford it and pay it off right away?
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Amarante




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Apr 12 2016, 7:39 pm
amother wrote:
Thank you. Why do you say not to put it on a credit card? As long as we can afford it and pay it off right away?


I pay everything with a credit card but I don't carry a balance as I pay in full each month.

Most people assume you are not paying off each month if you say you are using a credit card so it's semantics.

Using a credit card for convenience or points if you could pay cash one thing and is like paying cash. Using a card because you don't have the money and will accumulate consumer debt is not good especially if used to fund non essentials like a vacation.
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HonesttoGod




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 13 2016, 10:43 am
amother wrote:
I agree that it seems really irresponsible to take vacations when you're not even making ends meet. Just because you have a chance at improving your finances in the future doesn't mean it will happen when you need it to. Unfortunately I know from experience.

I think it's ery melodramatic to say you'll go crazy or be sick in bed if you don't spend hundreds on vacations. If you need a break and you don't have much extra money maybe get some cleaning help and takeout and take it easy.

I haven't been on vacation in many years. I do wish I could but I need to live within my means.

Op, maybe try a staycation where you do something fun and vacation like without traveling. It could be different and fun without costing too much.


Gee well I must be melodramatic.
In the same continuing tone I think it MUST be that all these posters saying vacation isn't a necessity obviously does not work full time, sees their husband for more than an hour each day and has a pretty chilled out life.
You can't comment on such situations until you are in it.
Vacation doesn't have to mean $10,000 in Hawaii. It can mean $1,000 for a weekend in Florida, or $1,000 for an extended weekend away. And this is not peer pressure (although I would love to visit all the places most of my friends have and do regularly). This is A NEED. Yes. And no one can say it is melodramatic or a luxury or stupid or irresponsible of me until they have lived half a day in my shoes. And I say half a day because I highly doubt you will last longer than that with your attitude.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 13 2016, 10:59 am
HonesttoGod wrote:
Gee well I must be melodramatic.
In the same continuing tone I think it MUST be that all these posters saying vacation isn't a necessity obviously does not work full time, sees their husband for more than an hour each day and has a pretty chilled out life.
You can't comment on such situations until you are in it.
Vacation doesn't have to mean $10,000 in Hawaii. It can mean $1,000 for a weekend in Florida, or $1,000 for an extended weekend away. And this is not peer pressure (although I would love to visit all the places most of my friends have and do regularly). This is A NEED. Yes. And no one can say it is melodramatic or a luxury or stupid or irresponsible of me until they have lived half a day in my shoes. And I say half a day because I highly doubt you will last longer than that with your attitude.


I'm really curious about your attitude.

I work full time as does my husband (I get up at 4:30 am every day). I commute 2 hours a day on top of that and come home to dealing with my kids and house. I have no cleaning help, 4 kids close in age (5.3 year age gap between the oldest at 8 and the youngest at 2.5) and they are all pretty young.

So, my life is not on easy street. And I love to travel. I would give up almost anything to travel around the world. I've been to all 50 states, Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Bahamas, Iceland, England, Germany, Italy, Greece, Israel, Japan and Australia. I seriously love to travel.

BUT. There is no way to classify it as a need, unless your job requires you to travel. Mine has some travel, but Tulsa is not as exciting as Sydney :-) You can destress at home if you need to and $1,000 is a lot of money, especially if you are paying interest on it!

It's your budget and your finances but I just don't understand it. We all have splurges in our lives that we want and don't cut out, but that doesn't make it a need.
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HonesttoGod




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 13 2016, 12:12 pm
saw50st8 wrote:
I'm really curious about your attitude.

I work full time as does my husband (I get up at 4:30 am every day). I commute 2 hours a day on top of that and come home to dealing with my kids and house. I have no cleaning help, 4 kids close in age (5.3 year age gap between the oldest at 8 and the youngest at 2.5) and they are all pretty young.

So, my life is not on easy street. And I love to travel. I would give up almost anything to travel around the world. I've been to all 50 states, Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico, Bahamas, Iceland, England, Germany, Italy, Greece, Israel, Japan and Australia. I seriously love to travel.

BUT. There is no way to classify it as a need, unless your job requires you to travel. Mine has some travel, but Tulsa is not as exciting as Sydney :-) You can destress at home if you need to and $1,000 is a lot of money, especially if you are paying interest on it!

It's your budget and your finances but I just don't understand it. We all have splurges in our lives that we want and don't cut out, but that doesn't make it a need.


Firstly, just like you don't understand my life/needs I don't understand yours (the point of my previous post). I don't get how you do it. Perhaps I am more emotionally fragile or mentally unhealthy or just not as strong or not as amazing whatever it is, I don't understand how you do it but neither do you understand me. And giving my breakdown of my day and my kids etc is not something I will do here.
Secondly, you have travelled 50 states, etc etc etc. I am guessing before you got married/when you were young? I haven't been to a quarter of those places. My situation and circumstances are different, again you are not me and I am not you.

Third a need is something that is mandatory/necessary for a person. I want new clothes, I NEED new tights as all of mine have holes in. I want a new phone but I NEED a new computer because I work on my computer and if it is broken/slow I can't work so I do need a new one.
I want to go to Hawaii and Maldives and Israel but financially I can't right now. I do however NEED to have a break, I NEED to go away from this place, I NEED to have a few days or a week away otherwise I will burn out. And having been there and done that, trust me, burning out is NOT pleasant and I do not want it to happen ever again Ch"v.

Finally, $1,000 is way over my budget I was just giving numbers based on what was written above, personally I can go away for a shabbs for $300 if I really want to but I want to spend a little bit more because I want to make the most of it once I have already organized it all. See the want/need? And if I can then I can, again, me and you two different people.

And now I have given you way too much of an insight into my life but I hope it illustrates my point a little bit more.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 13 2016, 2:32 pm
I would love to understand why it's a need for you, but you haven't really explained it. All you've said is you would burn out. I get that working hard burns people out, but I don't understand why it requires spending hundreds of dollars, rather than trying to visit a friend or just going out into the fresh air or go camping (which if you use a tent is very, very cheap).

Yes, I got married young (I was 22, is that young?). I did a lot of traveling before I got married, but also quite a bit since (most of the international travel).

I'm also not particularly unique. I am not high energy, not any more mentally healthy than regular people or whatnot.

I think the mentality of "needing" to get away has a lot to do with this generation. It's amazing what people consider a need rather than a want, even if it's something important to them.
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amother
Bisque


 

Post Wed, Apr 13 2016, 2:43 pm
Dave Ramsey recommends having an emergency fund of $1000 that you can access for immediate emergencies that crop up. After that, he recommends having an emergency fund of 3-6 months of living expenses. Suze Orman says to aim for eight months of savings for an emergency fund for living expenses.
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LittleDucky




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 13 2016, 3:15 pm
HonesttoGod wrote:
Firstly, just like you don't understand my life/needs I don't understand yours (the point of my previous post). I don't get how you do it. Perhaps I am more emotionally fragile or mentally unhealthy or just not as strong or not as amazing whatever it is, I don't understand how you do it but neither do you understand me. And giving my breakdown of my day and my kids etc is not something I will do here.
Secondly, you have travelled 50 states, etc etc etc. I am guessing before you got married/when you were young? I haven't been to a quarter of those places. My situation and circumstances are different, again you are not me and I am not you.

Third a need is something that is mandatory/necessary for a person. I want new clothes, I NEED new tights as all of mine have holes in. I want a new phone but I NEED a new computer because I work on my computer and if it is broken/slow I can't work so I do need a new one.
I want to go to Hawaii and Maldives and Israel but financially I can't right now. I do however NEED to have a break, I NEED to go away from this place, I NEED to have a few days or a week away otherwise I will burn out. And having been there and done that, trust me, burning out is NOT pleasant and I do not want it to happen ever again Ch"v.

Finally, $1,000 is way over my budget I was just giving numbers based on what was written above, personally I can go away for a shabbs for $300 if I really want to but I want to spend a little bit more because I want to make the most of it once I have already organized it all. See the want/need? And if I can then I can, again, me and you two different people.

And now I have given you way too much of an insight into my life but I hope it illustrates my point a little bit more.


Not trying to be rude or pry but just because someone else has been all over the world and you haven't doesn't factor into the situation. If she travelled for work, and I know people who have, they often don't get any relaxation time. Someone once told me a story about how they travelled to a city they never been to for work and while it sounded like an amazing vacation spot the most they saw was the airport, hotel, taxi and the office. Not relaxing even though it happens to be a top vacation spot.

If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. If you are losing money each year, you are not covering expenses. I could totally use a week or more off but I am considering myself lucky we visited local relatives on Sunday and didn't have to cook dinner for the family.
If I can't afford a new computer, even if I use it for work (I do), I borrow one. Or went to someone's house. Or library. Did that for several months a while back when I needed one (was in school and working and both require access to internet etc). Totally inconvenient but DH and I didn't have it in our budget. We saved and waited for a sale.
NEED is totally overused and exaggerated. NEEDS include BASIC food (not even what is considered by some to be standard shabbos fare), medical care (and not always your preferred doc but any competent one), some sort of housing even cramped, heating if your location requires it. Basic clothes.
Oh, I could really use some things. It would make my life a whole lot easier. But if I can't afford it- I don't. IF it's not in the budget, it isn't bought. Don't count on future earnings to cover it.

Yes, some have a bigger psychological "hole" to be filled that can easily be done by a vacation. But wouldn't the stress of not being able to pay your bills and paying off this vacation for months or years later be emptying the hole you are desperately trying to fill? It would make my hole deeper than before because I would regret it immensely.
See if you can get someone to babysit. Or have DH watch them. Or while kids are at school try to take a vacation day. Then just do what you want. Sleep in, take a nap, go for a walk, eat lunch out. Get a cleaning lady. No one is to bother you and tell everyone you are only checking your phone at 7 pm. Even staying at a cheap motel locally for one night alone to really tell the world you are "away" and so family/kids don't bother you might be helpful. Could that work? Won't cost nearly the $300 or more mentioned.
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suzyq




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Apr 13 2016, 3:28 pm
I have to agree with those who say that a vacation is not a NEED. I work full time, have little help, little kids and definitely don't have high energy, but when I need a break, I take a mental health day off work, take a nap and get take-out sushi. Total cost of less than $20. Maybe if I decide to splurge I'll get a massage also for another $70. And we don't lose money each year (though maybe the lack of out of town vacations is a partial reason why). Very few things are true needs when you are losing money each year. It's ok to say, I know I'm in debt, and I am making the decision to go further into debt by taking a vacation, but it's hard to justify calling it a true need.
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amother
Brown


 

Post Wed, Apr 13 2016, 11:27 pm
LittleDucky wrote:
If you are losing money each year, you are not covering expenses.


Op here.
This is where I think a lot of you are misunderstanding. We are NET negative for the year. That means yes, we are spending more than we are making, but WE ARE ABLE TO COVER BILLS because we have a SAFETY NET! So yes we are dipping slightly into our savings but we have enough atm that we don't need to be concerned about it, and soon G-d willing we will be back to making more than spending.

FYI, husband and I discussed rand determined that it WILL work out for us financially and we are starting to plan our vacation.

As for the want vs need situation.. Yes, I agree that a vacation is not what I consider a "need". However, I am in no place to judge someone else if they think it IS a need!! Just like with shidduch dating, everyone has those things/traits that they "CANT" live with or without. everyone has to decide for themselves what's important for them. If you want to continue discussing what it means to need something, by all means do so. But please do so politely. There is absolutely NO need to be obnoxious to people just because they have different beliefs from you. So I will not tolerate rudeness on my post.
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HonesttoGod




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 14 2016, 11:18 am
saw50st8 wrote:
I would love to understand why it's a need for you, but you haven't really explained it. All you've said is you would burn out. I get that working hard burns people out, but I don't understand why it requires spending hundreds of dollars, rather than trying to visit a friend or just going out into the fresh air or go camping (which if you use a tent is very, very cheap).

Yes, I got married young (I was 22, is that young?). I did a lot of traveling before I got married, but also quite a bit since (most of the international travel).

I'm also not particularly unique. I am not high energy, not any more mentally healthy than regular people or whatnot.

I think the mentality of "needing" to get away has a lot to do with this generation. It's amazing what people consider a need rather than a want, even if it's something important to them.


If you want my life story about why for me a vacation is a need at this point in my life you can pm me. I still won't give it to you because I don't know you and it is none of your business.

IMO a vacation is a need for some people. It is worth cutting back on everything to afford a vacation, nothing to do with todays generation as you don't know how old I am nor, again, anything about me.

I am happy for you that you are blessed with the energy and happiness in life that you do not need to go on vacation or away. Unfortunately, it is not the same for me.
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HonesttoGod




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 14 2016, 11:34 am
suzyq wrote:
I have to agree with those who say that a vacation is not a NEED. I work full time, have little help, little kids and definitely don't have high energy, but when I need a break, I take a mental health day off work, take a nap and get take-out sushi. Total cost of less than $20. Maybe if I decide to splurge I'll get a massage also for another $70. And we don't lose money each year (though maybe the lack of out of town vacations is a partial reason why). Very few things are true needs when you are losing money each year. It's ok to say, I know I'm in debt, and I am making the decision to go further into debt by taking a vacation, but it's hard to justify calling it a true need.


Take out sushi is not a mental health break for me Smile) If only.
I "treat" myself often, I have long bubble baths, I splurge on something I want but don't need. But I also hold back. A lot. I save up everything to be able to go on date nights, "vacations" (this also includes going to see my family oot), extra babysitting hours so I can clean up my house before picking up my kids etc.
We also don't lose money each year. We just struggle all year round. But we don't lose money. Ever.
Maybe it has to do with where we all live, I live mid-Brooklyn, the cost of life here is super super high. Which is why we are trying to move out again but we can't yet due to work. Catch 22.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 14 2016, 12:17 pm
HonesttoGod wrote:
If you want my life story about why for me a vacation is a need at this point in my life you can pm me. I still won't give it to you because I don't know you and it is none of your business.

IMO a vacation is a need for some people. It is worth cutting back on everything to afford a vacation, nothing to do with todays generation as you don't know how old I am nor, again, anything about me.

I am happy for you that you are blessed with the energy and happiness in life that you do not need to go on vacation or away. Unfortunately, it is not the same for me.


You are mistaking two things. One is wants vs needs and one is "is this something we should budget for?"

I have plenty of not strictly necessary things in my budget. Anything more than basic shelter, food, clothing and insurance is pretty much not a need. Then there are other things in our budget. They are not needs, but we value them and budget for them. For example, yeshiva tuition. It's absolutely a luxury to pay someone else to teach my children Torah, but we value the education they receive so we pay for it. Does that make it a need? No.

As to your life - I don't understand the point of posting "It's a need for me because I say so but I'm not going to tell you why because it's my business." Why bother put it out at all? Participation is not mandatory.
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HonesttoGod




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 14 2016, 2:01 pm
^^ Because you are not me.
Even I give you a blow by blow report of my life growing up, my experiences and life events, my day to day life and schedule and my mental health issues, you STILL won't get it. Because this is me not you. Just like I don't get how you don't need a vacation.
That is jst life.
I participated to the op by giving my opinion but you chose to take apart my post line by line.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 14 2016, 2:36 pm
HonesttoGod wrote:
^^ Because you are not me.
Even I give you a blow by blow report of my life growing up, my experiences and life events, my day to day life and schedule and my mental health issues, you STILL won't get it. Because this is me not you. Just like I don't get how you don't need a vacation.
That is jst life.
I participated to the op by giving my opinion but you chose to take apart my post line by line.


I don't know why you think I'm taking your post apart line by line. I'm responding to your posts. If you don't want to be responded to, it's best to not post.
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 14 2016, 2:49 pm
Op, I mean this in a nice way: I am not sure why you posted here if you didn't actually want to hear what people think. You are free to go on a vacation and do as you wish with your money. You asked a question and people answered it. If you don't agree with them, that's fine, you get to make the decisions. I hope you enjoy your trip!

We actually went on a trip using savings before we started working and I don't regret it at all. I can't say it was the most responsible thing we ever did but we knew that and decided to do it anyways.
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chocolate chips




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 14 2016, 3:20 pm
amother wrote:
Op here.
This is where I think a lot of you are misunderstanding. We are NET negative for the year. That means yes, we are spending more than we are making, but WE ARE ABLE TO COVER BILLS because we have a SAFETY NET! So yes we are dipping slightly into our savings but we have enough atm that we don't need to be concerned about it, and soon G-d willing we will be back to making more than spending.

FYI, husband and I discussed rand determined that it WILL work out for us financially and we are starting to plan our vacation.

As for the want vs need situation.. Yes, I agree that a vacation is not what I consider a "need". However, I am in no place to judge someone else if they think it IS a need!! Just like with shidduch dating, everyone has those things/traits that they "CANT" live with or without. everyone has to decide for themselves what's important for them.
If you want to continue discussing what it means to need something, by all means do so. But please do so politely. There is absolutely NO need to be obnoxious to people just because they have different beliefs from you. So I will not tolerate rudeness on my post.


This is so true.
No one can determine what a need vs a want is for any person. Everyone has different needs/wants.
As for vacation, well we have very little savings and barely make it month to month. Barely. We also have a little bit of credit card debt (very small amount but enough to be a stress). That did not stop me from very nearly going to my parents for Yom tov. I am barely managing to make shabbs each week, I am still not sure how I am making Pesach, I also haven't been to my parents for a YT for 4 years. I also hate Boro Park, hate living here and need a break extremely badly.
I just couldn't face using up every single penny we have plus for tickets so instead we are taking a cheaper vacation after yt. It will still be expensive. Still more than we can technically afford (not making us a minus at the year end but giving us a little more pressure to pay off bills) but hey, its either that or I have what happened last year, I was sick for 4 weeks straight until the Dr told me straight out "take a break".
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amother
Blonde


 

Post Thu, Apr 14 2016, 4:46 pm
Honest to GD I'm with you on this all the way. I also think vacations are a necessity in my life and I go twice a year. People think I'm crazy, but quite frankly I don't care. As you said, people who don't understand will never understand, and that's why I've long ago stopped bothering to explain. I usually just pick up and leave without telling anyone I'm going. Well not quite pick up and leave, cause it's a big hassle arranging baby sitters. Bh I can afford the vacations, but it's a priority for us
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amother
Brown


 

Post Thu, Apr 14 2016, 5:35 pm
tichellady wrote:
Op, I mean this in a nice way: I am not sure why you posted here if you didn't actually want to hear what people think. You are free to go on a vacation and do as you wish with your money. You asked a question and people answered it. If you don't agree with them, that's fine, you get to make the decisions. I hope you enjoy your trip!

We actually went on a trip using savings before we started working and I don't regret it at all. I can't say it was the most responsible thing we ever did but we knew that and decided to do it anyways.



I'm not sure why you think that I don't want people's input... What in anything I said gave you that impression? The only thing I was trying to clarify for people is that when I say we are "losing money" each year, all it means is that we are NET NEGATIVE. Meaning we are dipping into our (thank G-d substantial) savings. I wasn't sure that was clear to people so I just wanted to clarify that we are able to cover everything in our budget (bills included!!)
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