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Is it ok for me to pay my son to help me?
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 6:35 am
I know my situation is not ideal, but this is the reality right now.
I work from 9-5 have only sons and a full time working DH. I dont have a cleaning lady (something my DH says we cant afford right now) and the kids dont contribute to the household work what so ever no matter how many times I begged and pleaded.
I've gone weeks of not cleaning their rooms , the playroom etc. and they just let be, and did not care ...the stuff just accumulated more and more until I felt I couldnt handle it anymore and I cleaned it myself.
I've just discovered that I began suffering from depression and I physically dont have an ounce of energy in me.
My inlaws are coming for Pesach and there is SO SO much to do and the way I see it, I can not do it myself no way under the sun.
If it werent Pesach and the halacha wouldnt require a chometz free house I would just let it go...I havent cleaned my bathrooms in weeks, the dishes are in the sink for days...I had to wash my sons pants this morning so that he had what to wear to school today...it's absolutely crazy...
My oldest is 15 and will be off for bein hazmanim while I'll be at work full time until erev Pesach, do you think it's ok for me to say , offer him $100 to do heavy duty cleaning for me for two days? He otherwise will lay on the couch and not be willing to do anything (as in past experience) Last year we sent him to my inlaws to help them, where my FIL stood over him like a hawk until he moved himself and helped somewhat.
My depression is stemming from all this hard work that's put on me and my kids and DH just dont understand no matter how many times I try to explain it.
I always helped my mother...I did more than she did so for me it is just something I cant understand in my children, why they cant help.
But is it ok to offer money? Or is that a terrible idea? I need to help myself right now and that's the only way I can think of doing it.
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Riki12345




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 6:45 am
Why not give the $100 towards cleaning help? You can get 10 hours instead of 2!
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 6:45 am
I think it's setting a bad precedent. it will solve the short-term solution, but it won't help you in the long run. I have set chores for the kids and that's that. at 15, your son should be able to help you. if he's not willing, take away a privilege. it's ridiculous to let him get away with this. give him a schedule, tell him he has to do xyz. if it's not done, no phone/video game/computer time/ outings with friends/whatever it is he really likes. make sure to give the other kids chores as well so your 15 yr old doesn't have to do the whole thing himself. and do what you can. don't let the kids do everything, but don't be a shmatta. good luck!
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:00 am
rifkyw1154 wrote:
Why not give the $100 towards cleaning help? You can get 10 hours instead of 2!


I am at work and since I dont have a steady cleaning lady I wouldnt be able to leave someone there by herself and my DH wouldnt allow my son to be home at the same time alone with a cleaning lady
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:03 am
mummiedearest wrote:
I think it's setting a bad precedent. it will solve the short-term solution, but it won't help you in the long run. I have set chores for the kids and that's that. at 15, your son should be able to help you. if he's not willing, take away a privilege. it's ridiculous to let him get away with this. give him a schedule, tell him he has to do xyz. if it's not done, no phone/video game/computer time/ outings with friends/whatever it is he really likes. make sure to give the other kids chores as well so your 15 yr old doesn't have to do the whole thing himself. and do what you can. don't let the kids do everything, but don't be a shmatta. good luck!


Believe it or not , I have tried ALL this and that's why I know nothing will work other than money at this point.
We dont have a computer at home, or video games etc. but he loves to play music..I've taken away his keyboard and guitar...and the last two weeks I havent gone to the library to get books, because they all love to read and just lay on the couch reading into oblivion....when I take the priviledges away , they just get angry , give me attitude and mope all day absolutely doing nothing and it still all falls on ME!
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lfab




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:05 am
Try to find cleaning help to come in the evenings after you are home from work. You'll likely get a lot more for you money from hired cleaning help than from your son. No offense meant but it sounds like your son is likely to take his time with each task and get as little done in the specified time, whereas hired help would be a lot more likely to get more done.
Also, I happen to think it's a very bad idea to pay kids to help out a reasonable amount in the home. Being part of a family means you help out sometimes. Do it this once and you'll definitely never get him to lift a finger in the future unless you pay him.
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:06 am
amother wrote:
Believe it or not , I have tried ALL this and that's why I know nothing will work other than money at this point.
We dont have a computer at home, or video games etc. but he loves to play music..I've taken away his keyboard and guitar...and the last two weeks I havent gone to the library to get books, because they all love to read and just lay on the couch reading into oblivion....when I take the priviledges away , they just get angry , give me attitude and mope all day absolutely doing nothing and it still all falls on ME!


I'd say their stuff goes next. and if they don't get it done, they don't get it back. giving in to the moping won't help.

meanwhile, concentrate on the kitchen. there's no reason for you to clean the whole house. it's your dh's obligation to do bedikas chametz, let him find all the chametz then. just get the kitchen done so you can cook. if your family doesn't like it, they can pitch in like menschen next year.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:07 am
how about a positive incentive ... say if this & this gets done, we can go on such & such a trip for chol ha'moed

this way you are not paying him ... but he might help clean

I don't like paying kids to be part of the family - that should be a given ...
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amother
Taupe


 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:10 am
lfab wrote:
Try to find cleaning help to come in the evenings after you are home from work. You'll likely get a lot more for you money from hired cleaning help than from your son. No offense meant but it sounds like your son is likely to take his time with each task and get as little done in the specified time, whereas hired help would be a lot more likely to get more done.
Also, I happen to think it's a very bad idea to pay kids to help out a reasonable amount in the home. Being part of a family means you help out sometimes. Do it this once and you'll definitely never get him to lift a finger in the future unless you pay him.


I hear you loud and clear. I just want to make it clear that cleaning help in the evenings is not a possibility this depression is seriously debilitating...I come home at 6 and go straight to bed until 7 the next morning...I cant push myself anymore than I am...just going to work saps out every ounce of me right now.
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rgr




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:18 am
I don't know of this is an option for you, but my mother's cleaning help always came at 7am. Maybe you can find someone to come for an hour or two in the early morning?
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:23 am
greenfire wrote:
how about a positive incentive ... say if this & this gets done, we can go on such & such a trip for chol ha'moed

this way you are not paying him ... but he might help clean

I don't like paying kids to be part of the family - that should be a given ...


going on a trip is still paying for the service. I'm ok with rewarding for things when you work towards them with a system, but this is bribery. pesach cleaning is no joke, depression is no joke, and a fifteen year old should be old enough to just do what is expected of him.
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amother
Floralwhite


 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:24 am
The sons come home from Yeshiva for Pesach and feel like they are the royal guests? Oh but don't worry he will have a "list" a mile long when it will come time for shidduchim. What a catch.
Okay, rant is over! Smile
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:25 am
Although definitely he should help you without pay if you aren't living in a perfect world yes pay him and don't fight with him about cleaning or stress about having things cleaned.

Most of the therapists told me not to pay a certain difficult child I had to behave. But at he end of the day it was a lot cheaper, more effective and yes longer lasting then anything they ever did.

You also should try to understand your sons point of view. He is probably very tired from long zman, wants to relax and doesn't see cleaning as being the priority you do.
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Optione




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:40 am
If you decide to give him an incentive to help you clean, I suggest you give him a list of what has to be done, not just "two days" (he may waste half of those days doing nothing or moving extremely slowly.)
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:40 am
mummiedearest wrote:
going on a trip is still paying for the service. I'm ok with rewarding for things when you work towards them with a system, but this is bribery. pesach cleaning is no joke, depression is no joke, and a fifteen year old should be old enough to just do what is expected of him.


yes ~ if life were so gloriously perfect ...

but it's not

sometimes we must take a bull by the horns & guide them to the bidding ...

& for OP this is a reward and it works better than just a pay off ... it's saying we now have time as a family because the kids pitched in

not only is it a great incentive - but everybody wins !!!
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:44 am
Pay him per job, not per hour. I see no problem in paying him. Plan your total beforehand and he could earn it in a day or over two weeks. I'd say to bribe everyone else too. If there are is enjoyment, it's more desirable.

Think Mary Poppins, "just a spoonful of sugar " Music
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:47 am
why don't you find another bochur who is on bein hazmanim and pay him to clean?
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Faigy86




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:50 am
How does your DH expect the house to get ready for Pesach especially since HIS parents are coming?

Make (or I'm sure we can help you here) a list of all the things that need to be done and by when. Select the items that feel doable to you. Hand it over to you husband and say, "this is what I cannot do before Pesach. I leave it in your responsible hands to make sure it gets done." He can get the kids to do it, hire a cleaning crew, do it himself.

You both work full time and you are suffering. Time for him to step up to the plate.
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Fox




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 7:58 am
I'm gonna go against the grain and say that paying my kids has been very successful for me. Yeshiva boys, unless they have an overwhelming entrepreneurial streak, have very few opportunities to earn additional money, and I think this, as much as anything, dulls their work ethic.

Here are some of the things I've learned through trial and error:

* Clearly distinguish between jobs that are part of the kid's family responsibilities and those that are extra and for which payment will be received. I refer to this as being "on the clock" or "off the clock." Thus, I might say, "Aloyisius, here's a list of things for you to do today. The first four are off the clock, and the remainder are on the clock."

* Be specific, especially when dealing with boys. I apologize in advance if I offend anyone's egalitarian senstitivities, but I've found that male individuals in their teens can be extraordinarily dull-witted and, frankly, lazy, when it comes to solving certain types of problems. Can't find paper towels? They'll simply sit around rather than use a rag. So be specific not only about what should be done but what you expect your worker to do if he encounters a problem or is unsure of the next step.

* Select jobs that require various types of skills. Try to resist the temptation to only hire out the scut work to your kids, paid or unpaid. Vary the types of jobs by including some organizational challenges, some de-cluttering situations, etc.

* If your son displays a particular talent for certain jobs, make him available to work for friends and extended family. This will give him additional cash in his pocket; allow him to see himself as making a contribution; and help refine his work ethic.

Hatzlacha!
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amother
Royalblue


 

Post Thu, Apr 07 2016, 8:01 am
amother wrote:
You also should try to understand your sons point of view. He is probably very tired from long zman, wants to relax and doesn't see cleaning as being the priority you do.


he doesn't get a point of view here.

his mother is sick with debilitating depression, she works full time, and pesach is coming. they get a month off for pesach so they are home to help and be a part of the family. there is zero excuse here. its just plain bad middos.

to the OP- my mother let her kids get away with not helping. she was not a disciplinarian and she was not better off for it.

I think paying your son is a terrible idea. If you need help you should go on strike. Make dinner for yourself and the children who are younger than 8. everyone else including DH can eat cereal for all you care. shop for only yourself and the little kids. do laundry for yourself and the little kids. let the dishes and laundry go. let your inlaws come to a disaster. let the pesach cleaning go. let DH and older sons figure it out 2 days before pesach when nothing is ready. eventually they will get it and complain that you are not doing your job at which point hand them a mop and make a chores chart.
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