Keeping siblings together for visitation

amother

Sienna

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 9:57 pm

My therapist believes it's important. I also want them to go together.

My soon-to-be-ex wants to take only the boys for the seder. I said absolutely not, all or none.

Thoughts?

LittleDucky

Thu, Apr 07 2016, 10:23 pm

Was a reason given? Not that there is a good enough reason to discriminate between siblings because of gender but if say he didn't have a big enough place for all to sleep, it might make the issue more palatable. But still not ok. (Give up your bed and sleep on the couch, air mattresses etc).

He should not prefer one gender over the other. Should your girls feel like second class children? That their father doesn't want to spend YT with them?

How has visitation been handled thus far? Rules should be set in place, but also flexible if possible for extenuating circumstances (someone is sick one week and you switch shabbosim or school shabbos or whatnot).

amother

Sienna

Fri, Apr 08 2016, 12:02 am

He says he has to sit at the seder table and can't take care of them all.

He has been very inconsistent with taking them for weekends because he needs his mother's help taking care of them and she isn't available often.

They're little - the youngest is still in diapers.

I get that he can't take all of them and handle shabbos by himself. He wouldn't be able to go to shul, for example. Not that shul was a priority when we were living together but whatever. Still I refuse to let him take just the boys. Girls need a father just as much as boys do and I don't want them to think he loves them less.

I made it clear if he wants to treat an individual child to a special outing that's fine and it can be arranged so the others get their turn. But consistently splitting them up for shabbos or yom tov when it's supposed to be family time is not okay with me.

heidi

Fri, Apr 08 2016, 1:49 am

OP, I'm with you. And with all due respect to his religious needs, why not have him ask a rav. Maybe it's more important to father his children than make it to shul or sit through the whole seder.

imasinger

Fri, Apr 08 2016, 2:55 am

You are 100% right. Stand firm on this. And get support from other sources. Are you on speaking terms with his mother? A rav he will hear?

You might be able to offer a compromise that he can take just the boys for one day of ch"h, and just the girls for another. Or, just the kids old enough to stay up at seder.

Tablepoetry

Fri, Apr 08 2016, 3:09 am

You are right.
However, how about he take the kids above age three, regardless of gender?
It would be easier for him, and usually moms prefer to have the babies with them at that age.

amother

Denim

Fri, Apr 08 2016, 3:17 am

How does your therapist suggest you enforce this?

I can see your soon to be ex being less and less involved in the kids' lives because he is told all or none. He doesn't take the kids as often as you would like now. Are the boys older? Is the one in diapers a girl?

amother

Coral

Fri, Apr 08 2016, 4:19 am

Obviously the key is what's best for the children.
Typically it is better to have them all together.
Unless there are mitigating factors better to have the precedent that they all go together all the time. And he can make whatever arrangements necessary as parents do.
What do you think best for your children? Best for you?

amother

Coral

Fri, Apr 08 2016, 4:20 am

Sorry I see you said you do want them all together.

Stick to it.

You are setting a precedent and everyone needs to make adjustments and figure out the new reality.

amother

Coral

Fri, Apr 08 2016, 4:24 am

Op what you wrote in your posts is 100% correct. and you are not his babysitter. Generally it is best to keep them together (barring case specific factors) and he has to figure out how to be a divorced parent. And while I don't know who wanted the divorce or why the reality is that as a divorced parent you are also going to have to have time without your children with you. Just like he doesn't "babysit" for you. But thats not the main point. The main point is that you are right the children need to feel they all have a father and that they are together in it. And this is how visitation works.