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Teen ds- just need sounding board



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amother
Violet


 

Post Mon, Apr 11 2016, 5:25 pm
B"h teen ds is amazing- but why are teens sooo hard! Why can't they just listen to parental advice and not go and ask every rebbi they have ever met what they should do for their year after high school. and why don't these mentors talk to us and ask us what we see in our child's future before giving them bad advice.
ds- who is a great learner- but no illuy- just mentioned he would like to sit and learn for the rest of his life- beautiful, we can't financially support him and he knows this, but when I said- aren't you going to share your learning- as in teaching etc. he looked at me like he was from another planet- I asked how he planned on supporting himself, he is hoping his wife will. Then I looked at him like the "body snatchers" took him over. This is not what we taught him- learning is good- but to keep it all to yourself, I think is selfish. To assume you will find someone who will be able to support you in learning and care of the BE"H children and take care of everything and it be as simple as that is naïve. If you are going to rely on the community to support you(which is not our hashkafa) then you have to give back some how.
One Rebbi said go to college so you can get the degree over with, so it ewill make your parents happy and then learn- well that is a big waste of money if you aren't planning on using the degree!
I just wish he would trust us- since we know him best.
Biggest problem is- I am realizing I do some of the same things- ask everyone their advice before I make a big and sometimes small decision- its a bad habit and ends up making one less confident in their own decision making process.
I miss my cute little boy when the hardest decision was which book to read before bed!
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amother
Violet


 

Post Mon, Apr 11 2016, 5:27 pm
lol! See I am doing it right here by writing to all of you!
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 11 2016, 5:28 pm
He is a teen, don't take him so seriously. Most people don't make life decision in their teens. They may think they are making life decisions but they usually change their mind when they are older. Sounds challenging but keep in mind that this is probably just a stage.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Mon, Apr 11 2016, 5:36 pm
Thank you for the support- needed to hear that!
Now how do I lead him towards the right decision for HIM so that he sees it on his own without saying we know what is best for you still.....
It's too late for me to change who he found as mentors and some I thought were very level headed people until the not great advice they are giving ds.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Apr 11 2016, 6:21 pm
The teen years are when they are practicing to become adults, while they still have parents as a safety net. They need to start thinking about decisions on their own, and the more you push, the more they will resist.

Instead, try presenting alternative options for him to consider. See if you can get him to draw up a pro and con sheet on each option. Critical thinking is a crucial skill he'll need for life, and now is a great time to get him to put that into use.

"Parenting Teens With Love and Logic" is a great book, and you can probably find it at your library. It talks about how to open dialog without trying to control the outcome, and empowering your teens to think for themselves. You can present other points of view, and ask questions like "Well, what do you think will happen if...?" and "How do you think you will get there?" etc. Give him the tools, and let him work it out and present a plan to you.

You might be surprised at how deeply kids think about things, or he might be surprised at how deeply he needs to start thinking, or a little of both!
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amother
Violet


 

Post Mon, Apr 11 2016, 8:29 pm
op here- we did do the pro con sheet and he can say logically he understands all of the points and agrees with them and then there is his gut and the "rebbi's" voice and the stereotypes, that are just that- judging things on "a look" or perception when he knows and can say logically they are not true.. but then the gut feeling pops up again and we go round in circles.
So to break it down- he can say which place would be great for him and has everything he wants, great rebbi talmid relationship, high level of learning, war5m caring atmosphere, just not all the bochrim have the same "look". Emotionally he wants to choose another place that on surface sounds "cool" or his "style", but it is more of a show once you look under the façade, you have to work hard to form bonds with the rabbeim, not a very warm atmosphere- but it is the "in" place to be and he logically understands that, but it is the emotional struggle and that's when he goes asking a hundred different mentors. and of course he gets all confused again.
I think he may be overthinking the whole thing, but deadlines are coming up and we can't push it off.
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amother
Violet


 

Post Sun, Apr 17 2016, 8:11 am
The saga continues- had another long talk that we have all been avoiding about next year. ds just does not understand the purpose of the gap year. He thinks it is to hide away and just learn. We tried to explain to him the purpose of the gap year is to continue the development of the whole person and that includes mentorship from Rabbeim. The school he really wants to go to does not have that at all- everyone including students who have gone there have told him that. Yes it is good learning, but they do not have someone they can call now for questions and guidance. I am also not happy with the middos I have seen and experienced from the rabbeim that would be teaching him. I explained to him that we can not in good conciseness send him at 17 years old half away around the world to a place that will not be developing the whole person. He applied to college , but I don't think he is ready for it and he really needs this gap year. The other Yeshivot he applied to have great mentorship and in his eyes- not as intensive learning- which I don't believe is true, but even if that were true at this point I think it is more important for him to make a kesher with a rebbi and be around people who are mentschen and develop the bain adam l'chavero and character. he could stay home, but he would socially be alone and what's the point in that. I need the koach for him to see past the simple beauty of just sitting and learning and understand the importance of interactions with other people and having a rebbi. One of the rabbeim at the school he wants does not even have a phone, so what happens after he leaves yeshiva- You have to write letters with your questions, you have to contact 2 other people to work out a time to get the Rebbi a phone!?!?
In this past conversation I feel like he is so focused on type of hat and jacket as opposed to the middos. Its like someone sucked out of his brain what we have taught him and showed him through our actions all along which is not to judge people by their look as well as the importance of bain adam l'chavaro. The bais hamikdash was not destroyed because of lack of bain adam l'makom, Rabbi Akiva's students did not die because of lack of bain adam le makom, yom kippur Hashem wants us to ask for mechillah from our fellow human first and knows it is harder to do- over and over again we see the importance in bain adam lechaveoro and the importance of mentorship and guiddance- why can ds not see this anymore???? I know this should be my worst problem in life, but this is so hard for me right now.
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 17 2016, 10:21 am
amother wrote:
B"h teen ds is amazing- but why are teens sooo hard! Why can't they just listen to parental advice and not go and ask every rebbi they have ever met what they should do for their year after high school. and why don't these mentors talk to us and ask us what we see in our child's future before giving them bad advice.
ds- who is a great learner- but no illuy- just mentioned he would like to sit and learn for the rest of his life- beautiful, we can't financially support him and he knows this, but when I said- aren't you going to share your learning- as in teaching etc. he looked at me like he was from another planet- I asked how he planned on supporting himself, he is hoping his wife will. Then I looked at him like the "body snatchers" took him over. This is not what we taught him- learning is good- but to keep it all to yourself, I think is selfish. To assume you will find someone who will be able to support you in learning and care of the BE"H children and take care of everything and it be as simple as that is naïve. If you are going to rely on the community to support you(which is not our hashkafa) then you have to give back some how.
One Rebbi said go to college so you can get the degree over with, so it ewill make your parents happy and then learn- well that is a big waste of money if you aren't planning on using the degree!
I just wish he would trust us- since we know him best.
Biggest problem is- I am realizing I do some of the same things- ask everyone their advice before I make a big and sometimes small decision- its a bad habit and ends up making one less confident in their own decision making process.
I miss my cute little boy when the hardest decision was which book to read before bed!

If you set an example by letting others make important decisions for you...,
and if you send your kids to schools which encourage relying on religious authority figures for basic life decisions...,
and if these authority figures hold a hashkafa which differs from your own...

do not be surprised when your children do not make their own decisions and instead rely on those of rabbanim whose views you do not share.
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naturalmom5




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 17 2016, 10:37 am
Maybe call up the rebbe. And have a word with him.tell him unless he is signing a contract to support him for life he should stop messing him up

My husband knows about a dozen guys, like your son at 18, demanding money from his parents at 25, getting divorced at 36.

You need to be more proactive.
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imorethanamother




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 17 2016, 2:37 pm
DrMom wrote:
If you set an example by letting others make important decisions for you...,
and if you send your kids to schools which encourage relying on religious authority figures for basic life decisions...,
and if these authority figures hold a hashkafa which differs from your own...

do not be surprised when your children do not make their own decisions and instead rely on those of rabbanim whose views you do not share.


The OP doesn't sound like she's letting anyone else make important decisions. It sounds like her son in Yeshiva is looking to his mentors for advice. Gee, just like ANY TEENAGER, regardless of school. Kids think their parents know nothing, get some advice from their stupid friends ("YO IMMA BE A MUSICIAN AND BE A ROCK STAR WITH MY TWO YEARS OF PIANO LESSONS"), and voila.

OP, don't worry about it. Stress that your child can make his own choices. He is of a certain age, of course. However, as the one holding the purse strings, he would have to find a way to fund the choices you don't approve of. If he wants to learn for the rest of his life, go right ahead, but you're not giving them money every month, and explain that unless he's extremely good looking and/or rich, rich girls aren't going to be clamoring to support him.

You say, "I'll pay for school X and College Y. Anything else, figure it out."
And as long as he has a college degree, he can always fall back on it later to find a job if his Miracle Supporting Wife and their eventual 23 kids need extra financial support, without the added stress of him having to go back to college with mouths to feed.

I went to the frummest of schools, and we were all told to support our kollel husbands to infinity. (And then they made huge banquets to honor the rich people who paid to keep on their lights, so their message was somewhat diluted.) My parents told me I could do whatever I wanted, but not to expect a monthly check, because that's not their philosophy - they believe in working and learning. That narrowed my choices considerably. You are not beholden to your children's choices.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 17 2016, 2:51 pm
imorethanamother, I hugged you because I believe it is wrong to limit anyone's choices. I'm sorry your upbringing was so narrow, and I'm sorry for every other woman out there who feels the same way you do.

OP, I can hear how upset you are about this. You want only the best things for your son, like any good mother would. This is a super scary time of life for both you and your DS. I hope you'll listen to DrMom, and let DS figure this out for himself. I sincerely doubt that he'll be scarred for life if he makes the wrong decision and has to switch schools after the first year.

He sounds like an amazing boy, a serious learner, and that he wants to please everybody at once. He may have a very special path in store for him, and it might not be what you are expecting or hoping for, but it will be his, and he will excel at it. Just give him the space to let him spread his wings.

If it helps, according to the "Love and Logic" books, if you give a child the right upbringing from birth to age 11, you can be sure that even if they take a very divergent course in life, they will eventually come back full circle, and they will always carry with them the things you taught them when they were young. (As the parent of an almost 13yo DD, I keep repeating this to myself! Wink )
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imorethanamother




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 17 2016, 2:57 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
imorethanamother, I hugged you because I believe it is wrong to limit anyone's choices. I'm sorry your upbringing was so narrow, and I'm sorry for every other woman out there who feels the same way you do.


Lol. Wow. You're "sorry my upbringing was so narrow" because my parents didn't give me a blank check to do whatever I wanted with my life?
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pointyshoes




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 17 2016, 3:05 pm
He says he will do a degree "to make his parents happy".
As I see it, many, many teenagers become very idealistic and decide to commit to a kollel lifestyle forever. This is due to lack of life experience and the hype that surrounds that lifestyle.
So they commit, get married and then wake up to real life and settle down and get jobs. I have seen this happen countless times...
Your son is a teenager and his choices are not set in stone.
I think you should pay for the degree- he'll think he's just doing it for your happiness but in 5 years he'll be a full fledged mature adult and will realise that you were doing it for his happiness.
I do believe he will use his degree- he will thank you for it. Its the best thing you can do for him now.
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saw50st8




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 17 2016, 3:09 pm
I actually think getting a degree even to "get it out of the way" is a good thing for a few reasons:

1) Even If he does choose to learn for an extended period of time, a bachelors can often get a foot in the door and you aren't starting from scratch

2) Many kids calm down in college (for better or worse).
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tryinghard




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, Apr 17 2016, 7:06 pm
FranticFrummie wrote:
imorethanamother, I hugged you because I believe it is wrong to limit anyone's choices. I'm sorry your upbringing was so narrow, and I'm sorry for every other woman out there who feels the same way you do.



Are you referring to how she was brought up, or her suggestion to OP to insist that she will only pay for certain schools? Because that is absolutely OP's prerogative, to spend her money in ways that she chooses.
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