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Forum
-> Judaism
-> Halachic Questions and Discussions
greenfire
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Mon, Apr 18 2016, 7:21 am
so my brains went from dog neutering to cutting down a fruit tree ... another thing we cannot always fathom as to why we shouldn't do
maybe it has to to with not limiting Hashem's creations to reproduce - bear fruit & multiply
one year I drove the then husband crazy about cutting down an ant infested apple tree - he kept saying halacha doesn't permit ... I kept saying but it is not healthy
well that year one middle of the night, god pulled it down with a thud in a storm [along with a cable wire - good reason not to watch tv either - right ... nah wrong cause sometimes it's better than therapy]
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amother
Maroon
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Mon, Apr 18 2016, 7:35 am
Well my grandmother is now selling her house in Israel (she lives in NY now)
Out of her 6 sons three passed in the last few years after a tenant tore out a fruit tree in her backyard. Out of the other three two are ill.
So beware.
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cnc
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Mon, Apr 18 2016, 10:10 am
amother wrote: | Well my grandmother is now selling her house in Israel (she lives in NY now)
Out of her 6 sons three passed in the last few years after a tenant tore out a fruit tree in her backyard. Out of the other three two are ill.
So beware. |
I know very similar stories in 2 families where they cut down fruit trees.
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WastingTime
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Mon, Apr 18 2016, 11:27 am
Our Rav told us to hire a non Jew
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FranticFrummie
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Mon, Apr 18 2016, 12:21 pm
This is a VERY big thing in Israel (not sure how it applies out of the country.)
If the tree is sick, dead, infested, or otherwise a threat to life or property, then it is allowed. If it is producing usable fruit, then you must leave it alone.
I know people who have built their decks and awnings around existing trees so as not to disturb them. As a nature lover, I think it's wonderful. We need more trees!
I know that when people were evicted from Gush Katif, some were cutting down their orange groves, so that the enemy could not benefit from them. The rabbis came out in swarms and prohibited it. There's also a big issue about cutting down olive trees, even if Palestinians use them to hide snipers, or if the trees are in the way of building a security fence.
*Bad pun warning*
It's not so cut and dried.
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sped
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Mon, Apr 18 2016, 2:13 pm
It is a big thing in Chu"l also. I persuaded my friend (MO) to ask her rabbi before doing it and she wa sshocked at his response, that she absolutely not unless there is a specific problem with the tree.
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HonesttoGod
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Tue, Apr 19 2016, 8:56 am
I know one too many stories about people having serious problems (from deaths to illness and accidents) from cutting down fruit trees, buying a property that had a fruit tree or building on properties that had a cut down fruit tree.
I am sure there is a way around it but it really is not a joke.
Personally I would just leave it and build around it - beautiful apple tree centerpiece anyone?!
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amother
Red
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Tue, Apr 19 2016, 9:11 am
We had some mulberry trees - really weeds - growing in our back yard. They were no longer producing much fruit, if any, and it hadn't been edible anyhow due to bugs.
But we wanted to build on an apartment for my parents so - l'maan yaarichun yomecha, right?
My husband asked one Rov who said, get three Rabbonim to agree you can do it and then it's okay.
The first one he asked said, "Shmerel, don't cut down a fruit tree!"
However, we found a company that could dig up the tree with all the roots and replant it. They do this all the time, relocating apple orchards when builders want the land. The thing is, he said, we'll never take proper care of the tree, so what he'll do is move it to his fields where it will be irrigated etc.
It wasn't cheap but very worthwhile!
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FranticFrummie
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Tue, Apr 19 2016, 9:19 am
amother wrote: | However, we found a company that could dig up the tree with all the roots and replant it. They do this all the time, relocating apple orchards when builders want the land. The thing is, he said, we'll never take proper care of the tree, so what he'll do is move it to his fields where it will be irrigated etc.
It wasn't cheap but very worthwhile! |
Wow, what a great solution!
Now I'm wondering whether things like wild blackberries would fall under this category. They are so incredibly invasive, and the tiniest rootlet will be a 20 foot plant by the following spring.
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greenfire
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Tue, Apr 19 2016, 9:28 am
you know there are many people who get ill & die - never having owned a tree ...
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thunderstorm
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Tue, Apr 19 2016, 9:32 am
greenfire wrote: | you know there are many people who get ill & die - never having owned a tree ... |
True, I also know a family though that had a fruit tree cut down without their knowledge and 7 siblings had sudden deaths in their prime ...this is a very serious issue.
My brotherinlaw's nephew fell out of a window and died right after they moved into their apartment, a week later the neighbor in the same housing complex suddenly died and each family experienced serious loss as within a month after moving in. They learned after that the builders had removed multiple fruit trees before putting up this complex.
These are people that I know, not just stories I heard.
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FranticFrummie
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Tue, Apr 19 2016, 9:34 am
greenfire wrote: | you know there are many people who get ill & die - never having owned a tree ... |
And many have perfectly kosher mezuzot that are checked regularly. Still, we have rabbonim for a reason. Do you really want to push your luck? Do you go swimming during the 9 days?
There are things we simply don't understand in this world. If everything made sense to us, we'd be like the angels.
I try to be as rational and logical as the next person, and sometimes faith is really hard! Trust in Torah does not come naturally to most of us.
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greenfire
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Tue, Apr 19 2016, 9:41 am
I never said to disregard a mitzva - but I wouldn't put all my faith into that keeping me alive
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cinnabon
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Tue, Apr 19 2016, 9:45 am
Is there a problem with cutting down a few branches off a fruit tree?
We are having a hard time putting up a gate on our porch , because of a few branches that are growing into our property.
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thunderstorm
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Tue, Apr 19 2016, 9:48 am
cinnabon wrote: | Is there a problem with cutting down a few branches off a fruit tree?
We are having a hard time putting up a gate on our porch , because of a few branches that are growing into our property. |
You should ask a sheila, but I know that my inlaws have many fruit trees and in order for them to grow properly they have to go through a pruning process where branches are removed....so perhaps that may not be an issue. I believe the issue is actually uprooting the tree, yet it's always safest to ask your rav first, just to make sure you dont have to follow specific rules etc.
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HonesttoGod
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Tue, Apr 19 2016, 11:59 am
greenfire wrote: | I never said to disregard a mitzva - but I wouldn't put all my faith into that keeping me alive |
People die crossing the road. Some because they committed suicide and others because it was an accident.
So the fact that someone bought a property, knocked down a fruit tree and lost their young kid after, accident? or connection?
The owner lost ALL his money and literally had to beg in the street to pay for bread for his kids (true story I know the person).
Another had the entire structure fall down randomly just after finishing to build.
Yet another person had a massive fire 2 weeks after they moved in to a new house built over an old fruit tree.
The list goes on, these are all things that happened to people just in my area, that I/my dh knows.
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FranticFrummie
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Tue, Apr 19 2016, 12:15 pm
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greenfire
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Tue, Apr 19 2016, 12:42 pm
yes ~ it is well worth the read
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mandksima
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Wed, Apr 20 2016, 10:24 am
I was told you can uproot if you will replant. The problem is that there is only a 50% or so chance of it retaking. We have a pomelo (big citrus) tree that I would have to move if we build out. I really don't want to chance that it will die. You can definitely prune branches.
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greenfire
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Wed, Apr 20 2016, 10:34 am
yes ~ pruning branches enhances growth & keeps trees alive & flourishing
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