80 y.o. Widower paying $1,000 less than market value in BP

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Apr 24 2016, 10:47 pm

Whats the most tactful way to raise and by how much?

Wife died a year ago so we didnt even think of doing it this year, but its now over a year. While we feel sorry for them that they didnt ever buy a house and have been paying rent forever, paying rent thats 1,000 less than market value, is a huge difference. They havent been raised in many years.

We wouldnt raise a huge amount, but we think with our expenses and needs, and our kids' needs (were not wealthy, were not fancy at all, were very thrifty) we think we should raise.

watergirl

Sun, Apr 24 2016, 10:49 pm

The man is 80 years old, living on a fixed income. If you raise him, there is a good chance he will be forced to leave and look for another place, which will also cost a lot. I think this is a shailah for a rav.

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Apr 24 2016, 11:04 pm

Make sure you know what they laws are for raising rent. Discuss the new amount a while before the lease is up to renew. That way he has time I prepare and if he can't afford it, he can look for other arrangements.

I can't see why this would be a halachic shaila. Maybe in just looking at it as a landlord but it's not the landlords job to keep rent low as a chessed. However it is very important, I think, to only make very small increases per year. Very small. And give proper warning.

amother

Tangerine

Sun, Apr 24 2016, 11:09 pm

OP here. I think taking this up w a Rav is a good idea. This way I have no regrets.

I guess I can also ask the Rav if I should approach the tenant directly, or do this through his children.

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Apr 24 2016, 11:20 pm

I don't see how this is a Shayla for a Rav. You own a house, he is a tenant. Rents increase over time. If he can't afford an increase, his children should help him pay it or take him rent free into their home. It's not your achrayus to worry about his finances, as long as your family is in need of the income.
I have done this, I took my elderly grandparent into my home, at way below market value.
But I wouldn't necessarily do it just for a tenant.

watergirl

Sun, Apr 24 2016, 11:26 pm

amother wrote:

He landlord/tenant relationship is a business relationship. Business is so complex that there is a huge tractate in Talmud that is dedicated to it. Op has a conscience which is why she told us his age and the fact that he just lost his wife a year ago. I am sure there is a reason that he was able to stay there for so long that the place has increased in market value as much as it has.

We, as frum jews, consult with a rav when in doubt. Op is in doubt - why push her not to ask him?

amother

Pumpkin

Sun, Apr 24 2016, 11:35 pm

Watergirl, you are right. I didn't mean to discourage OP from asking her Rav. I am constantly looking for guidance from MY Rav, so the concept of asking is one I completely agree with.
I just felt that OP should not feel guilty asking for a raise from her tenant, if he cannot afford more, the responsibility to help him lies on his family, not on his landlord. But by all means, the OP should seek rabbinical advice.

Sun, Apr 24 2016, 11:41 pm

Do you know that he can't pay market rates? Plenty of older people are well-off, even if they live modestly. I'm not sure how you would find this out tactfully, but you could start by speaking with your tenant about your desire to raise the rent and see what he says.

As far as going to the children - why? This is only appropriate if his children have been handling his rent for him.

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Apr 24 2016, 11:52 pm

watergirl wrote:

Yeah, but asking a Rav for advice is different than asking a shaila. This doesn't sound like a shaila but for sure when in doubt ask advice.

amother

Scarlet

Mon, Apr 25 2016, 11:59 am

I think that the OP wants to discuss this with her Rav and the tenant before hand is very considerate and nice of her. Yes, business is business but common where is our mentschlichkeit. Ok, we don't know if this man has money or not or if he has children even, or children who are able or willing to help him out in some way. Yes, the OP is living frugally and could certainly use the extra money but to potentially throw a man of such age into a possible huge fiasco is unthinkable. She will have to find out, I guess what can be done.

I wish more landlords had a heart like the OP.....