There is Chassidish and then there is Chassidish

amother

Salmon

Wed, Apr 27 2016, 10:57 pm

Not growing up with Chassidim and not knowing too many I always knew that Chassidish people dress a certain way and live their lives a certain way. Lately as I've gone more out in the world after having kids, I have discovered there's a whole diverse Chassidish crowd out there I did not know about, and not anywhere close to resembling the way I had envisioned them.
So standing in line yesterday with a packed crowd at an attraction in NJ, I got to see and converse with so many different types of Jews, especially Chassidim, as I gravitated towards them.
I can't believe how many different types there are. I saw those Chassidim, the ones I've always envisioned, the hat on the wig, thick stocking, husband with bekishe.
But then I saw so many others, which I didn't know existed. Mostly I could only see they are Chassidish because of the husband or the boys having curled peyos or from the way they spoke to their kids in Yiddish.
Lots of them looked so trendy. Long beautiful wigs, trendy clothing. I saw plenty of Hot Chanis too. They all told me that they are Chassidish and were really proud of it.
I saw a Chassidish woman who looked like Barbie with a stunning long dark to light ombre wig, dark nail polish and a trendy dress hugging her beautiful figure. I wouldn't dream she is Chassidish, if not for the fact that her sons were wearing Chassidish hats and they were conversing in Yiddish. While talking to her and telling her how I'm learning about other types of Chassidim she told me that if I visit a few towns including hers, I'll see tons of families like hers. Husbands wearing shtreimels and bekishes, with boys and girls attending mainstream Chassidish Yeshivas but the women do not look different than any other non Chassidish woman. They are also worldly, open minded, and very much out there. I met another impeccably dressed stylish woman who turned out to be Chassidish. In my conversation with her I got to hear how she was going for her degree and had just bought her dream car. Her husband and kids looked very typically Chassidish, albeit stylishly dressed.

It was just very interesting and eye opening. I didn't realize how limited I was in my knowledge about the variety of Chassidim. I was very positively impressed and I'm glad I'm getting to broaden my horizons.
I'd love to learn and know more. I just love learning about different kinds of Jews and especially about Chassidim, who I've always had an interest to learn more about.
So if you are Chassidish, can you teach me more about your type and other types?

P.S. I have chosen to go anonymous because I went into a little more detail than I wanted to about third parties.

amother

Yellow

Wed, Apr 27 2016, 11:11 pm

In order to answer your question I suggest you first define the word "chassidish"

If it's just the clothing then if the wife isn't wearing "chassidish" clothing are they still "chassidish"

If you ask those who still dress with the thick stockings and short wigs they'll tell you those wearing the long wigs are "bums"

If you ask those with the long wigs they'll tell you they follow the derech of chassidus but dress more "normal".

If you ask those who dress trendy and live in places like Brooklyn and Williamsburg you'll also hear that their kids weren't accepted to chassidish schools

If you speak to those who come from more "open minded" communities they'll tell you they had no problems with schools

It's a matter of whom you speak to and how you are defining the word

amother

Aquamarine

Wed, Apr 27 2016, 11:15 pm

Such people may call themselves Chassidish, but the only things connecting them to Chassidim are the parts of the culture that is their men's dress codes and language.

Which is fine, everyone is entitled to call themselves whatever they want. But they are not mainstream Chassidim.

watergirl

Wed, Apr 27 2016, 11:16 pm

amother wrote:

Do you realize that all of your options are external only? I'm sure you are aware that chassidish is more than clothing and schools, right?

amother

Pumpkin

Wed, Apr 27 2016, 11:16 pm

Are you me? I was thinking about all of these questions on the subway today. Surrounded by what I would once have assumed were all Chassidim, and now wondering if they are instead Yeshivish or Lubavitcher.

Is there an easy, non-intrusive way to figure out who's who, just for the purpose of understanding (not finger pointing, promise)?

In Brooklyn, obviously, and even the Chassidish men are in skinny trousers.

DrMom

Wed, Apr 27 2016, 11:22 pm

You may want to explore the sub-forum called "Respectfully Learning About Different Sects of Orthodox Judaism."

amother

Lilac

Wed, Apr 27 2016, 11:26 pm

Chassidim encompass such a diverse group that there is no single identifying marker. I am very chassidish and I wear trendy, colorful clothes. You would be able to guess my chassidish'ness by my beige stockings and the (stylish!) hat on my sheitel. I live in Montreal, and in the winter everyone wears hats and boots all the time. I was at the doctor's office and offered a fellow chassidishe woman a ride home. She asked me hesitantly if I was going to the chassidishe neighborhood. So we can't even always identify each other!

amother

Pumpkin

Wed, Apr 27 2016, 11:29 pm

amother wrote:

But are Yeshivish Chassidim? Lubavitcher looks Chassidic but isn't?

I'm not meaning to be obtuse or annoying, I'm truly curious.

Notsobusy

Wed, Apr 27 2016, 11:35 pm

amother wrote:

But are Yeshivish Chassidim? Lubavitcher looks Chassidic but isn't?

I'm not meaning to be obtuse or annoying, I'm truly curious.

Yeshivish is not chassidim. Lubavitch doesn't look chassidish, but is. Are you more or less confused now? Wink

amother

Coffee

Wed, Apr 27 2016, 11:41 pm

Very, very ironically, when chassidus started, it had NOTHING to do with clothing.

Sadly, for many people that's all there is.

To the best of my knowledge, the Baal Shem Tov did not wear a shtreimel...

greenfire

Wed, Apr 27 2016, 11:48 pm

clothes do not make the man nor the woman

look into ones actions & you will see their soul

amother

Copper

Thu, Apr 28 2016, 12:18 am

Research the term "Tuna-Beigel". Tongue Out

Chloe

Thu, Apr 28 2016, 12:41 am

amother wrote:

Research the term "Tuna-Beigel". Tongue Out

I think this is pretty offensive, and I doubt OP was referring to that.

zohar

Thu, Apr 28 2016, 1:17 am

amother wrote:

The Baal Shem Tov wore a streimel, and so did the Vilna Gaon.

amother

Blush

Thu, Apr 28 2016, 1:28 am

zohar wrote:

The Baal Shem Tov wore a streimel, and so did the Vilna Gaon.

The Vila Gaon (the gra) who is as litvish as they come wore a streimel? I need a source for that.

amother

Coffee

Thu, Apr 28 2016, 1:37 am

amother wrote:

Research the term "Tuna-Beigel". Tongue Out

That is absolutely disgusting. I find that very offensive, and I'm not even chassidish.

DrMom

Thu, Apr 28 2016, 1:51 am

amother wrote:

That is absolutely disgusting. I find that very offensive, and I'm not even chassidish.

What does this term mean (if it's not too disgusting to describe)?

amother

Coffee

Thu, Apr 28 2016, 2:11 am

DrMom wrote:

What does this term mean (if it's not too disgusting to describe)?

It's not what it means, it's the negative connotations that are disgusting. Think 'bummy', wannabe-ish...

I see this attitude way too often, and it is disturbing and condescending.

Chassidish people are people too. If a chassidish woman wants to dress more trendy, wear a longer shaitel, become more worldly, etc., how dare we slap on a derogatory title?

I've seen this a lot in my litvish community, which borders a chassidish one - we tend to hold chassidim to a certain superficial standard, and limit them to our expectations of what chassidim are. Anyone who doesn't meet those standards is a 'tuna beigel.'

Um, hello?

If a very yeshivish woman starts wearing longer shaitels, do we call her any names? No.

So why the double standards with chassidim?

Plus, there are many people who are culturally chassidish or heimish - the men wear the levush, but the girls go to Bais Yaakovs, and they are raised in a more American, open environment than many other chassidim. Why would you call them tuna beigels? Just because their father and husband happens to wear a shtreimel? That is extremely silly and superficial.

amother

Coffee

Thu, Apr 28 2016, 2:20 am

amother wrote:

The Vila Gaon (the gra) who is as litvish as they come wore a streimel? I need a source for that.

I don't have a definite source - yet - but I did learn in Jewish History that shtreimels were commonly worn in Europe, even in Lithuania, with no Chassidish implications. It's just that chassidim kept wearing the shtreimel.

For example, the litvish Yerushalmis wear a shtreimel, too, many are Perushim who were part of the Gra's community, I think.

DrMom

Thu, Apr 28 2016, 2:23 am

amother wrote:

If a very yeshivish woman starts wearing longer shaitels, do we call her any names? No.

I'm not yeshivish, but I'd guess: Yes, probably.
Crying