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groisamomma




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 7:32 am
amother wrote:
Another kollel wife who is ready to do away with this system and dispose it in the nearest sanitation dump.

Though I seem to be the only one (maybe copper amother touched on it also) whose dh is not on the same page. My husband sounds like all your BY teachers and rebbeim. have emunah...bitachon.. the money will come...money is not important (??!!)....Torah is the only thing...yada yada.

I don't have anyone to talk to this about, it's so so hard. I hate this lifestyle.

Also, feel different than most posters here because my parents were not even for this lifestyle. They were so not pushing it. In fact, though they werent actively against it, they did try to show me how hard it is and that it's not what I'm used to. Their words fell on deaf ears, I was too soon out of seminary to let it penetrate. I really believed it would work.

The biggest problem is that I'm all alone and feel so jealous of all you ex kollel wives who at least have husbands with sechel who eventually realized it's not working. I know it's hard for you with no income and all that, but I don't see that ever happeneing here..
And honestly I know this sounds bad but aside from the money issue, I'm sometimes just like disgusted with the whole system. I'm actually embarassed to tell people dh is in kollel. it's like he's not an adult. all he does it sit and learn all day. I don't know to me it sounds so odd. Like what's wrong with him?

just my ramblings..take what you want from it.


Are you me?!? No, you are not alone. I am in the exact same position as you and I feel EXACTLY the same way on every point you made. We should talk LOL.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 8:03 am
amother wrote:


And as so many ppl are pointing out, hopefully when one is in his fifties, his earning potential is vastly greater than a 22 yr old's...


Also responding to imorethanamother on p. 7.

Sure. And one's obligations are vastly greater than a 22 y.o.'s.
And there's a middle ground between "starting college straight out of high school instead of all those years of beis medrash" and no prep and full infantilization. It's raising responsible, resourceful menschen who've borne some responsibility starting from their teen years, whether mowing lawns, cutting hair, acting as shamash in a shul, baal korei, etc. Then, in kollel, they don't have to/shouldn't wait till one month before the support stops to start doing something. There's tutoring, paying night kollelim, continuing with any skills they developed in high school - maintaining those accountability muscles and maybe even doing some sort of informal internship in different areas during bein hazmanim to see what they have an affinity for.

But because of the system we have, and the great bracha we have to offer high level learning and scholarship to all, I would hate to see a boy give it all up at 17. At least a year or two of full-time Torah learning and then some kind of education framework that allows for or has built in, regular time for continuing learning for at least a seder a day.

When seminary was broached to my class I thought this was a compelling point: many of us were going to go on to higher secular education. We needed to appreciate how much more sophisticated Torah learning is than what we'd been offered so far. Which wasn't an indictment of my high school, it was an appreciation that we could only be exposed to so much, and a direct message to us that we shouldn't think our learning was done - we could and should continue to find learning opportunities. I think this applies to boys too, even more so as there is such a value in being continued life-long learning, I.e. being koveiah itim. Not to mention a mitzvah, and I don't mean as in a good thing to do but an obligation. See the first Rashi in parshas Bechukosai for a picture of what that entails.
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amother
Pumpkin


 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 8:07 am
I am reading the posts of the kollel wives who state they don't want his lifestyle for their kids but their husbands are not on the same page because they are enjoying their intellectual stimulation and worry free days. I am reading about the mothers whose kids need them and they can't be there - and the kids are suffering. I am reading about the women who write this is so difficult as the family grows and more kids Coke - to work and grocery shop and fit it all in and not be able to be home before kids bedtimes.

I don't understand how a system that is for learning Torah produces husbands who are "bnei Torah" yet lack the basic derech Eretz to listen and acknowledge that their wife is collapsing under the demands his learning and not working are placing on her. Or that these adult men don't have the selfless nature that Torah encourages and can't realize that their learning might be coming at the expense of the chinuch of their kids who need Mommy but have changing babysitters. Esp when they are being told this.

I understand kollel and learning full time is ideal and is beautiful for these husbands. But Mashiach has not yet come and for some reason they think they can live the ideal dream while their wives fulfill their obligation as husbands to support - even when the wives are saying "
This is too much."

I'm not הקב״ה but I do wonder how after 120 they will answer these questions. How did you learn while your household was falling apart? How did you not listen and man up to your hallachik chiyuvim that you took upon yourself via marriage? How many tears did your wife she's because of your rigidity and selfish outlook?

I always thought a real Ben Torah had middos and derech Eretz because דרך ארץ קדמה לתורה.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 8:15 am
amother wrote:
And honestly I know this sounds bad but aside from the money issue, I'm sometimes just like disgusted with the whole system. I'm actually embarassed to tell people dh is in kollel. it's like he's not an adult. all he does it sit and learn all day. I don't know to me it sounds so odd. Like what's wrong with him?

just my ramblings..take what you want from it.


Ok, here's what I take from it.
STOP! Don't denigrate the Torah. Find a moreh or morah derech you can respect. Yes, you need a change. Yes, some sort of change will help you respect your husband. If you have children by now, you don't want to sour them on respecting their father or their own future Torah growth. You'll offer them different guidance than you got, but try to reframe things. To yourself, your kids, whoever you speak to who makes you embarrassed to be a kollel wife.

I have to apologize. I'm reading and rereading this before hitting send. I'm not the tell it like it is sandwich. This isn't just to you but to the voices who aren't appreciating how important learning Torah is. Personal story: I go to shul every Shabbos now. For years I would sit like a golem after mussaf during Pitom Haketores. I'd never said it, couldn't keep up, didn't seem necessary and I said some Tehillim meanwhile. Then I noticed the last paragraph and decided to start saying it. Not for the segula of reading the ketores but to imprint how important, precious, and essential to creation learning Torah is. I want to maintain my faith that learning is important, that supporting and endorsing learning is important, and that the world needs talmidei chachamim. And not only does that paragraph contain the words, "Talmidei chachamim marbim shalom b'olam" but the words "shalom rav l'ohavei Sorasecha." Loving Torah and those who learn and propagate it - and look around, there are many, many good people out there - brings bracha.

And apologies to OP. I don't think this is where she envisioned her thread heading.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 8:20 am
saw50st8 wrote:
My working husband gets up at 5:30 am for a regular day, gets the kids off to school, works a full day and often comes home at 9-10 pm. I think people assume they aren't capable of that when most people are. I also think you might be being harsh on the working men you know who don't go to shiurim or learn much. My husband used to have a daily chavrusa, but real life kicks in and he doesn't have time for it (he listens to shiurim while commuting which many men you know may also do even if you don't see it, or they learn during their lunch break or whatnot).
.


As I said, there are times in life where the learning will not be as rigorous as others. By listening to shiurim regularly he's keeping the engine oiled so that when he will have more time, he might expand to a regular chavrusa or whatever else will work for him (on the level of what he will enjoy and grow from, and what works for family).

And I definitely know those men who find pockets of time to learn and salute them.
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amother
Pumpkin


 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 8:32 am
PinkFridge wrote:
Ok, here's what I take from it.
STOP! Don't denigrate the Torah. Find a moreh or morah derech you can respect. Yes, you need a change. Yes, some sort of change will help you respect your husband. If you have children by now, you don't want to sour them on respecting their father or their own future Torah growth. You'll offer them different guidance than you got, but try to reframe things. To yourself, your kids, whoever you speak to who makes you embarrassed to be a kollel wife.

I have to apologize. I'm reading and rereading this before hitting send. I'm not the tell it like it is sandwich. This isn't just to you but to the voices who aren't appreciating how important learning Torah is. Personal story: I go to shul every Shabbos now. For years I would sit like a golem after mussaf during Pitom Haketores. I'd never said it, couldn't keep up, didn't seem necessary and I said some Tehillim meanwhile. Then I noticed the last paragraph and decided to start saying it. Not for the segula of reading the ketores but to imprint how important, precious, and essential to creation learning Torah is. I want to maintain my faith that learning is important, that supporting and endorsing learning is important, and that the world needs talmidei chachamim. And not only does that paragraph contain the words, "Talmidei chachamim marbim shalom b'olam" but the words "shalom rav l'ohavei Sorasecha." Loving Torah and those who learn and propagate it - and look around, there are many, many good people out there - brings bracha.

And apologies to OP. I don't think this is where she envisioned her thread heading.



Pink ridge - we do love Torah so pls do not say we don't.
We strap ourselves to pay our tuitions because we value Torah.
We pay for kosher food and homes in outrageously priced areas because we live Torah and love her.
We donate huge sums to Mosdos.
We keep taharas hamishpacha when it is so hard.
We spend fortunes on tznius clothing without complaining.
We push our husbands who are exhausted to go a shiur and chavrusa.
We spend extra so our kids can have more out of school learning.
We work extra hours so our kids can spend summers in nice environments infused with Torah.

What we don't love is hiding behind " you don't love Torah if you don't think kollel is THE way to go or can't handle being in kollel." Because that is just not Torah values or outlook.

It's that thinking that is used and preached because otherwise so many of our daughters would opt to be an Akeres habayis which is a job kollel has undervalued in its push to elevate the Ben Torah, and tried to pretend and teach a mother's job can be done with ease while working full time plus. And the reality is that the Jewish home has and always will be the foundation of what klal Yisrael has been build on.

If you ask me it's time to start elevating the role of the mother to our girls and our boys so more of our grandchildren have available mothers who sacrifice their wants for their kids. And to tell the financial truth to our kids about kollel so that those who choose it do it and don't resent it and can succeed in it.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 8:58 am
amother wrote:
Pink ridge - we do love Torah so pls do not say we don't.
We strap ourselves to pay our tuitions because we value Torah.
We pay for kosher food and homes in outrageously priced areas because we live Torah and love her.
We donate huge sums to Mosdos.
We keep taharas hamishpacha when it is so hard.
We spend fortunes on tznius clothing without complaining.
We push our husbands who are exhausted to go a shiur and chavrusa.
We spend extra so our kids can have more out of school learning.
We work extra hours so our kids can spend summers in nice environments infused with Torah.

What we don't love is hiding behind " you don't love Torah if you don't think kollel is THE way to go or can't handle being in kollel." Because that is just not Torah values or outlook.

It's that thinking that is used and preached because otherwise so many of our daughters would opt to be an Akeres habayis which is a job kollel has undervalued in its push to elevate the Ben Torah, and tried to pretend and teach a mother's job can be done with ease while working full time plus. And the reality is that the Jewish home has and always will be the foundation of what klal Yisrael has been build on.

If you ask me it's time to start elevating the role of the mother to our girls and our boys so more of our grandchildren have available mothers who sacrifice their wants for their kids. And to tell the financial truth to our kids about kollel so that those who choose it do it and don't resent it and can succeed in it.


I am very glad I gave you the opportunity to say this.
I think though that there are some people who might not be able to say exactly what you have and need to think about what I said.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 9:48 am
saw50st8 wrote:
My working husband gets up at 5:30 am for a regular day, gets the kids off to school, works a full day and often comes home at 9-10 pm. I think people assume they aren't capable of that when most people are. I also think you might be being harsh on the working men you know who don't go to shiurim or learn much. My husband used to have a daily chavrusa, but real life kicks in and he doesn't have time for it (he listens to shiurim while commuting which many men you know may also do even if you don't see it, or they learn during their lunch break or whatnot).

I hear the point about training, but there are ways to accomplish that WHILE still going for something. Also, "working" and "leaving kollel" shouldn't be dirty words. No one should look down on people who leave kollel, and I know that happens. Make the kollel model sustainable, because right now it isn't.


Pinkfridge already answered better than I could, and I agree that listening to shiurim while commuting IS being kovea itim. In fact, there are those who do the Daf with their ipods, and there's a whole Chazara system available on MP3 for those who want it. On top of that, there are shiurim in Halacha, Hashkafa, you name it. My DH listens to tapes while driving, walking, etc....and of course that's learning too. I once heard a tape by Rabbi Avigdor Miller where someone asked him what he should learn if he only has a very limited time, and he answered him "Mah Shelibo Chofetz" - he should learn that which his heart is drawn to, as it will lead him to have more time for learning. By listening to shiurim on tape, your husband is keeping up the connection and paving the way to more learning when he will B"EH have time.

I don't mean to be harsh in any way, but my statement of those I see who are not Kovea Itim did not include people who listen to shiurim on tape. And I accept from you that I will do my best to refrain from any personal judgement - it's possible that I'm not aware, though in some cases I don't think so.

I fully agree that people who leave Kollel should be respected, and it's a shame that there are those who don't.
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observer




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 9:50 am
amother wrote:
I am reading the posts of the kollel wives who state they don't want his lifestyle for their kids but their husbands are not on the same page because they are enjoying their intellectual stimulation and worry free days. I am reading about the mothers whose kids need them and they can't be there - and the kids are suffering. I am reading about the women who write this is so difficult as the family grows and more kids Coke - to work and grocery shop and fit it all in and not be able to be home before kids bedtimes.

I don't understand how a system that is for learning Torah produces husbands who are "bnei Torah" yet lack the basic derech Eretz to listen and acknowledge that their wife is collapsing under the demands his learning and not working are placing on her. Or that these adult men don't have the selfless nature that Torah encourages and can't realize that their learning might be coming at the expense of the chinuch of their kids who need Mommy but have changing babysitters. Esp when they are being told this.

I understand kollel and learning full time is ideal and is beautiful for these husbands. But Mashiach has not yet come and for some reason they think they can live the ideal dream while their wives fulfill their obligation as husbands to support - even when the wives are saying "
This is too much."

I'm not הקב״ה but I do wonder how after 120 they will answer these questions. How did you learn while your household was falling apart? How did you not listen and man up to your hallachik chiyuvim that you took upon yourself via marriage? How many tears did your wife she's because of your rigidity and selfish outlook?

I always thought a real Ben Torah had middos and derech Eretz because דרך ארץ קדמה לתורה.


The kollel lifestyle is working for many many families. Majority of those wives are not on imamother, so you are not hearing about them all.

If the kollel lifestyle is not working for you, or you for whatever reason think your husband is just learning because it's the "easy life", or it's too much for you, then you need to tell your husband that you can't do it anymore.

It is a husband's obligation to financially support his wife. IF both parties are ok with it, the wife can work so he can learn. But the second she is not willing to do that, finances become completely his responsibility. Any rov will tell you that. It's straight out in the kesuba that he promises to support his wife. So if the woman doesn't want to work any more, or doesn't want to work full time, any kollel husband who is a real ben torah should understand that although he may be disappointed, it's what he has to do.

That only works, though, if the wife is open and honest. Not if she is collapsing and insisting "No, I want you to stay in kollel". It's got to be open and honest.
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 9:51 am
Just want to add one more thing: If a couple does not agree about the lifestyle they are living, then that is something that needs to be discussed - whether with a trusted, knowledgeable Rav, or marriage counseling. Ditto for the type of shidduchim they will seek for their children - they should be on the same page and it goes without saying that the child's needs AND wants should be primary.

Life is dynamic, and when communication and understanding is reached, change happens.
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amother
Chocolate


 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 10:39 am
This thread took quite a detour from the original point of the thread, which is fine, as obviously people have a lot to say about this. But putting the kollel debate aside, the real discussion here is whether or not parents who raise their children to live like this, with no plan or preparation for the real world, should then at the very least take responsibility for helping their kids make it in the real world when the time comes. Ideally, of course, preparing them for the real world in advance would probably be easier on everyone. In fact it wasn't even about Kollel specifically, but about parents having children and not realizing that it's a gift and a responsibility and a large part of that responsibility is raising your children to be adults who can function independently.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 11:19 am
amother wrote:
Pink ridge - we do love Torah so pls do not say we don't.
We strap ourselves to pay our tuitions because we value Torah.
We pay for kosher food and homes in outrageously priced areas because we live Torah and love her.
We donate huge sums to Mosdos.
We keep taharas hamishpacha when it is so hard.
We spend fortunes on tznius clothing without complaining.
We push our husbands who are exhausted to go a shiur and chavrusa.
We spend extra so our kids can have more out of school learning.
We work extra hours so our kids can spend summers in nice environments infused with Torah.

What we don't love is hiding behind " you don't love Torah if you don't think kollel is THE way to go or can't handle being in kollel." Because that is just not Torah values or outlook.

It's that thinking that is used and preached because otherwise so many of our daughters would opt to be an Akeres habayis which is a job kollel has undervalued in its push to elevate the Ben Torah, and tried to pretend and teach a mother's job can be done with ease while working full time plus. And the reality is that the Jewish home has and always will be the foundation of what klal Yisrael has been build on.

If you ask me it's time to start elevating the role of the mother to our girls and our boys so more of our grandchildren have available mothers who sacrifice their wants for their kids. And to tell the financial truth to our kids about kollel so that those who choose it do it and don't resent it and can succeed in it.


Yes yes yes ! This is exactly how I see it .
I think kollel life can be great if you have the money to have the mother stay at home ( if she wants to ) and the father learn. But otherwise - it's not ideal. I look around me and I see failure of the yeshivish kollel world- bratty adults who believe that the world owes them ( parents owe them money and support , the government owes them financial aid etc ).
I believe in being a mother first. My dh can ( and is ) be a real torahdik Jew while working but I cannot be a great mom if I have to work full time ( some others can but many cant). The kids suffer and its not worth it . My dh's learning ( at 12 am when he comes home from work or while commuting to work ) is worth 1000000 times more than a kollel guy who learns only half his day ( because honestly how long can one sit and learn? How many men can do that ALL day long ?according to a few kollel men we have spoken to - very few can do that ) .
Rambling .
I'm happy to see there are so many women here who see life realistically and understand that kollel isn't superior it's just different . Maybe there's hope for the future .
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 12:44 pm
observer wrote:
The kollel lifestyle is working for many many families. Majority of those wives are not on imamother, so you are not hearing about them all.

If the kollel lifestyle is not working for you, or you for whatever reason think your husband is just learning because it's the "easy life", or it's too much for you, then you need to tell your husband that you can't do it anymore.

It is a husband's obligation to financially support his wife. IF both parties are ok with it, the wife can work so he can learn. But the second she is not willing to do that, finances become completely his responsibility. Any rov will tell you that. It's straight out in the kesuba that he promises to support his wife. So if the woman doesn't want to work any more, or doesn't want to work full time, any kollel husband who is a real ben torah should understand that although he may be disappointed, it's what he has to do.

That only works, though, if the wife is open and honest. Not if she is collapsing and insisting "No, I want you to stay in kollel". It's got to be open and honest.


Yes, she has to be honest. It's not so simple. Sometimes I feel like the proverbial stranger in the strange land, totally not speaking the language. To me, any time spent in kollel is heroic. But now people toss around five years so cavalierly, as if how can anyone not manage at least five years, that the husband must have the zitsfleish and "financially it's doable" that anyone leaving too "early" will feel pressure, angst, and guilt. They will not feel endorsed for making the best, most appropriate decision for them.
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PinkFridge




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 12:49 pm
amother wrote:
. My dh's learning ( at 12 am when he comes home from work or while commuting to work ) is worth 1000000 times more than a kollel guy who learns only half his day ( because honestly how long can one sit and learn? How many men can do that ALL day long ?according to a few kollel men we have spoken to - very few can do that ) . .


I'm not G-d's accountant but we know this principle from other sources. Someone can feed his father the most succulent foods and offer him the cushiest lifestyle, while someone else drives his father to the factory to a most grueling shift. And since the first one is nasty when he gives the food, and the second one treats his father with great respect, the second one is getting sechar, and more of it.

Hats off (figuratively) to your husband!

( Though I do believe that there are kollel guys who are the real deal. A good number of them.)
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 1:26 pm
amother wrote:
Yes yes yes ! This is exactly how I see it .
I think kollel life can be great if you have the money to have the mother stay at home ( if she wants to ) and the father learn. But otherwise - it's not ideal. I look around me and I see failure of the yeshivish kollel world- bratty adults who believe that the world owes them ( parents owe them money and support , the government owes them financial aid etc ).
I believe in being a mother first. My dh can ( and is ) be a real torahdik Jew while working but I cannot be a great mom if I have to work full time ( some others can but many cant). The kids suffer and its not worth it . My dh's learning ( at 12 am when he comes home from work or while commuting to work ) is worth 1000000 times more than a kollel guy who learns only half his day ( because honestly how long can one sit and learn? How many men can do that ALL day long ?according to a few kollel men we have spoken to - very few can do that ) .
Rambling .
I'm happy to see there are so many women here who see life realistically and understand that kollel isn't superior it's just different . Maybe there's hope for the future .


I also see beauty in the Kollel world. I know people who live the simplest lifestyle, without expectations of support from others (yes, they do exist).

And I'm not either G-d's accountant, so I don't claim to know whose Torah is worth more. But I do know what it's like to be married to someone who is out of the house before I get up - including Bein Hazmanim - for a learning Seder; who maintains 3 Sedarim a day (again, including Bein Hazmanim). There are people who do sit and learn a full day, and I do consider that to be something special - and different - than someone who learns at the end of the day - which is in its own category. Surely every type of learning with Mesiras Nefsh - whether after a hard day of work, or striving to do the utmost within a full Kollel day - is special and beloved to Hashem.
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 1:32 pm
Chayalle wrote:
I also see beauty in the Kollel world. I know people who live the simplest lifestyle, without expectations of support from others (yes, they do exist).

And I'm not either G-d's accountant, so I don't claim to know whose Torah is worth more. But I do know what it's like to be married to someone who is out of the house before I get up - including Bein Hazmanim - for a learning Seder; who maintains 3 Sedarim a day (again, including Bein Hazmanim). There are people who do sit and learn a full day, and I do consider that to be something special - and different - than someone who learns at the end of the day - which is in its own category. Surely every type of learning with Mesiras Nefsh - whether after a hard day of work, or striving to do the utmost within a full Kollel day - is special and beloved to Hashem.


You're right . I wasn't speaking of serious kollel people ( some of them are my family so I know them first hand).
I simply wish kollel was a real choice and not a given .
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Chayalle




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 2:26 pm
amother wrote:
You're right . I wasn't speaking of serious kollel people ( some of them are my family so I know them first hand).
I simply wish kollel was a real choice and not a given .


I think it should be exactly that - a choice. For sure when it comes to mid to long term learning (which I define as past 1-2 years) the persons involved need to be fully aware of what that might entail.

I also see it as my job as a parent to guide my children according to their strengths, in addition to what they want in their future. If I have a daughter who is not one of iron strength and will, and steady parnassah capabilities, I don't see her marrying someone with long-term learning plans. And even a child who is capable of that type of job has to want it to pull that off.
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amother
Tangerine


 

Post Tue, May 10 2016, 8:35 pm
PinkFridge wrote:
Also responding to imorethanamother on p. 7.

Sure. And one's obligations are vastly greater than a 22 y.o.'s.
And there's a middle ground between "starting college straight out of high school instead of all those years of beis medrash" and no prep and full infantilization. It's raising responsible, resourceful menschen who've borne some responsibility starting from their teen years, whether mowing lawns, cutting hair, acting as shamash in a shul, baal korei, etc. Then, in kollel, they don't have to/shouldn't wait till one month before the support stops to start doing something. There's tutoring, paying night kollelim, continuing with any skills they developed in high school - maintaining those accountability muscles and maybe even doing some sort of informal internship in different areas during bein hazmanim to see what they have an affinity for.

But because of the system we have, and the great bracha we have to offer high level learning and scholarship to all, I would hate to see a boy give it all up at 17. At least a year or two of full-time Torah learning and then some kind of education framework that allows for or has built in, regular time for continuing learning for at least a seder a day.

When seminary was broached to my class I thought this was a compelling point: many of us were going to go on to higher secular education. We needed to appreciate how much more sophisticated Torah learning is than what we'd been offered so far. Which wasn't an indictment of my high school, it was an appreciation that we could only be exposed to so much, and a direct message to us that we shouldn't think our learning was done - we could and should continue to find learning opportunities. I think this applies to boys too, even more so as there is such a value in being continued life-long learning, I.e. being koveiah itim. Not to mention a mitzvah, and I don't mean as in a good thing to do but an obligation. See the first Rashi in parshas Bechukosai for a picture of what that entails.



True
as I said in my first post on this thread, a couple should have some inkling of responsibility when they get married and learn how much life costs, regardless of whether they're being supported or not. Ideally, each couple should have a sound exit strategy to kollel, and if dh can handle it ( yes tht has to b said though it should not b) he should pitch in in any way he can as u mention. Ttly agree.

In our case, dh taught English bein hasdarim and held numerous jobs bein hazmanim so tht when the time came to leave kollel, he knew how to handle responsibility and what he enjoyed doing and was good at.

Re the babysitting issue on pg 7, if ur dh is starting a new job, his babysitting availability will be 90% less than it was while he was in kollel. Yes, he can take turns with u but ur forgetting how much easier it is to take off from kollel. And thts besides the fact tht kollel has off more than two months a yr...

And, like many men in Lkwd who cant find suitable employment, he may very likely have to commute to work.
Kollel life spoils u with the available hubby-babysitter.
There are lots of ppl whose dhs are still in kollel so tht they can work.... Instead of it being the other way around...
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Post Wed, May 11 2016, 11:53 am
amother wrote:

Re the babysitting issue on pg 7, if ur dh is starting a new job, his babysitting availability will be 90% less than it was while he was in kollel. Yes, he can take turns with u but ur forgetting how much easier it is to take off from kollel. And thts besides the fact tht kollel has off more than two months a yr...

And, like many men in Lkwd who cant find suitable employment, he may very likely have to commute to work.
Kollel life spoils u with the available hubby-babysitter.

Depends on how you view kollel. If you view it as a serious commitment, you treat it as you would a job. My husband doesn't just take off from kollel whenever a kid is sick. I take off work too. We switch off or its either him or me, not always him. Kollel is not just wasting time, it's serious.
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