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What exactly does "not recommended" mean? Starbucks.
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amother
Olive


 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 10:59 am
My kids really enjoy the in store frappuccino at Starbucks. Various kosher certification sites list this item as "not recommended". My family is on the modern side but we keep kosher. Where would "not recommended" fit into this picture? Is it entirely not kosher? I don't expect the people from new square to buy the drink but what about if you are kosher but not machmir?
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cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 11:01 am
It depends which websites list it as such.
If you don't consider those websites overly machmir, then I wouldn't eat the products.
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Rutabaga




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 11:07 am
AIUI, some of the ingredients at Starbucks are not kosher and they're not careful about mixing things or cleaning things in between uses. So while a frappachino might technically be OK, there might be other stuff that gets mixed in which is not.

It's generally better to stick to packaged drinks or buy the more fun drinks for a kosher store.
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OOTforlife




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 11:40 am
I think most kosher certifiers don't want to deal with potential disputes or liability for labeling something "non-kosher." So they just say "not recommended." If you think those rabbis are not representative of your derech, ask a rabbi who is, even if it's by email.
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amother
Yellow


 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 12:28 pm
I think there are actually treif ingredients in the frappuccino mix.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 12:28 pm
The last time I asked them to see every ingredient that goes into the frappachino, there were a few different items that had no Hechsher. Thats different than "not recommended".
Also, being uncertified means that hey have the freedom to change the ingredients at any time. So lets say on a monday, you knspect everything and its all kosher - but then they fan out of something and replaced it with another item that has no hechsher. They can do that if they so choose.


Last edited by watergirl on Sun, May 15 2016, 12:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SmileUrJewish




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 12:30 pm
I know that for frappucinnos in particular, unfortunately the mix that they use contains non-kosher ingredients. Sad
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moonbeam




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 12:49 pm
Actually according to the kosherstarbucks Facebook page I believe most frappes are treif-free but are just not certified kosher.
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Mimisinger




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 12:51 pm
I agree with oot - they're just covering themselves. It's not kosher.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 12:59 pm
eemachana wrote:
Actually according to the kosherstarbucks Facebook page I believe most frappes are treif-free but are just not certified kosher.

That page is not a kosher certification, same with kosherstarbucks.com. Its 2 guys who publoshed a list.
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momx6




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 12:59 pm
What about regular iced coffee from Starbucks?
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gingleale




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 1:09 pm
The CRC and kof-k both have lists and explanations of kasher at Starbucks.
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watergirl




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 1:17 pm
eemachana wrote:
Actually according to the kosherstarbucks Facebook page I believe most frappes are treif-free but are just not certified kosher.

Just for fun - I looked at kosherstarbucks.com - and ALL of the frapps are not recommended.
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amother
Black


 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 2:06 pm
since starbucks now sells ham sandwiches and other actual non-kosher food, the kashrus of any coffee made with a machine whose metal parts are washed in the dishwasher with a ham sandwich knife is highly questionable.

Most starbucks machines have removable parts that are washed in the dishwasher

As in you are potentially drinking coffee made in totally trief metal machinery. Not okay.

As in, machmir or maikil aside, would you drink coffee by the home of your non Jewish neighbor if you had no way of knowing if she used her treif spoon to mix it?

There are some drinks that are kosher bdieved. That means if you bought it by mistake, or something, you don't need to spill it out. You can drink it. It does not mean you should purchase it intentionally.

There are a couple of types of coffee that are totally kosher. The CRC has an excellent list. But this is actually a matter of basic kosher, not chumras.
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NurseK




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 2:09 pm
DONT GET THE "not- recommended" DRINKS!!!
The reason Im saying this is because their ham and cheese sandwhich is also listed as "not recommended" on that kashrus website. So you cant assume for drinks it means "basically kosher but not recommended to get lchatchilah." it could be treif
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amother
Burlywood


 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 2:21 pm
What could be "treif" in the frappaccinos?
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cookiecutter




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 2:54 pm
amother wrote:
since starbucks now sells ham sandwiches and other actual non-kosher food, the kashrus of any coffee made with a machine whose metal parts are washed in the dishwasher with a ham sandwich knife is highly questionable.

Most starbucks machines have removable parts that are washed in the dishwasher

As in you are potentially drinking coffee made in totally trief metal machinery. Not okay.

As in, machmir or maikil aside, would you drink coffee by the home of your non Jewish neighbor if you had no way of knowing if she used her treif spoon to mix it?

There are some drinks that are kosher bdieved. That means if you bought it by mistake, or something, you don't need to spill it out. You can drink it. It does not mean you should purchase it intentionally.

There are a couple of types of coffee that are totally kosher. The CRC has an excellent list. But this is actually a matter of basic kosher, not chumras.
You are not a rabbi and should not pasken. It is not clear at all that washing treif utensils with non-treif in the same dishwasher makes everything treif. It is also not clear that they even do it. It's no great accomplishment to make people's lives more complicated with thoughtless "chumras".
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DrMom




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 2:59 pm
Mimisinger wrote:
I agree with oot - they're just covering themselves. It's not kosher.

Why don't they just say that? What do you mean "covering themselves?" They're a kashrut agency. If something doesn't meet their standards, why don't they just flat out say so?
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cookiecutter




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 3:02 pm
DrMom wrote:
Why don't they just say that? What do you mean "covering themselves?" They're a kashrut agency. If something doesn't meet their standards, why don't they just flat out say so?
It makes sense that they can't say it's not kosher, because the store didn't ask for their assessment and it might be kosher by someone's definition. They probably don't want to say something as explicit as "this meets our standard" and "this doesn't meet our standard" because they are not being paid to certify. Thus, they were likely unable to investigate fully, and even if they were, they'd essentially be giving a hechsher for free in those circumstances.
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tichellady




 
 
    
 

Post Sun, May 15 2016, 3:08 pm
amother wrote:
since starbucks now sells ham sandwiches and other actual non-kosher food, the kashrus of any coffee made with a machine whose metal parts are washed in the dishwasher with a ham sandwich knife is highly questionable.

Most starbucks machines have removable parts that are washed in the dishwasher

As in you are potentially drinking coffee made in totally trief metal machinery. Not okay.

As in, machmir or maikil aside, would you drink coffee by the home of your non Jewish neighbor if you had no way of knowing if she used her treif spoon to mix it?

There are some drinks that are kosher bdieved. That means if you bought it by mistake, or something, you don't need to spill it out. You can drink it. It does not mean you should purchase it intentionally.

There are a couple of types of coffee that are totally kosher. The CRC has an excellent list. But this is actually a matter of basic kosher, not chumras.


This is a very strict interpretation of how taam is transferred. Many orthodox rabbis would say this is not a problem. I have never even heard of people who don't get coffee from Starbucks and I come from a rabbinic family
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