Babysitter's Husband Assists with Childcare

Chayalle

Wed, May 25 2016, 7:44 am

amother wrote:

wow chayalle just wow.
now I know why I am so unbelievably miserable in lkwd.
if I don't know you or you don't know my bil, mil, sil then you'll nix the playdate.
gawd, no wonder I hate it here.
its like if u aren't part of the gang, good luck to even getting a friggin' play date.
I was right all along. there isn't even a reason.
love u too hon

I'm sorry you are miserable.

Please tell me, would you send your young child to my home if you don't know me and no one you know knows me? Why should you trust me?

Please don't say you know me from imamother Smile

. I could be another Friedasima, for all you know.

dancingqueen

Wed, May 25 2016, 7:46 am

Chayalle wrote:

Truthfully, one can argue that you never really know someone.

However, if a family has an upstanding reputation for years, and people I know and trust trust them, it helps me feel more comfortable.

But don't all these molestation stories show that being from an "upstanding" family is almost a safeguard against being accused of bad behavior since people assume you are good? Oy it's definitely tough.

Better to be cautious with very young children especially I feel.

Chayalle

Wed, May 25 2016, 7:49 am

dancingqueen wrote:

You have a point, but I'm not talking about yichus here....I'm just talking about the family having a decent reputation, that's all. they don't have to be related to the VIP's in town.

amother

Wheat

Wed, May 25 2016, 7:53 am

Like the poster above said, it means nothing if u know my family.
and yes, I would send to your house if our daughters were in the same class.
happily.
I would have seen u at PTA or at drop off and I would be so excited for my daughter to go play.
because its one afternoon not an overnight stay.
because we send to the same place and are part of the same community.
because I know that grooming usually happens first.
because in my house we talk about private places and inappropriate touching
because if something would happen it would be OK to talk about before it got further. because we'll work together to stop it so it wont be a horrible trauma and we will be ok.
because we love each other and we support each other.
but the nieces of that rabbi in Israel may not be. even though he was family and part of the right social circle and had a beard and wore the right clothes blah blah blah.
sheesh.

amother

Wheat

Wed, May 25 2016, 7:59 am

and since I'm so completely pissed.
here's a nasty little secret.
chayalle, we actually know ppl in common.
I can tell from things u've written here.
and some of them? like one who the husband who u think is SOOO frum?
watches movies ALL THE TIME.
gasp. how awful.
u know how I know?
because he's my brother in law.
and he's really "choshuv"
also a hypocrite
but thats neither here nor there is it?
now go be paranoid about everyone u know...

glamourmom

Wed, May 25 2016, 8:02 am

amother wrote:

seriously?? why are you taking out your anger and frustration on one person?? she's being honest and helpful to some of us and she's not guilty of anything. to use your lingo, chillax.

glamourmom

Wed, May 25 2016, 8:13 am

amother wrote:

ok I hear. sorry.
just hard to live in a community that is not particularly welcoming to "strangers" who don't dress "right" or know the "right" ppl when all you want is ur kids to be able to hang out at someone's house for an hour without thinking about your husband or your underpants is all.

hear you too. I live in my hometown and living in same apt since married and my neighbors who I sit out with (okay were not the same background type 100%) still wont let their children come inside my house. and they don't accept me into their group. it's not a good feeling but I don't think it's only cuz you moved to a new town. I hope your situation gets better.

Chayalle

Wed, May 25 2016, 8:51 am

amother wrote:

Hey I'd have no problem with your kid coming to hang out at my house for an hour. And after I got to know you, chances are I might not have a problem with my child coming to yours.

Chayalle

Wed, May 25 2016, 8:52 am

glamourmom wrote:

I have a neighbor who only lets our kids have an "outside the house" play arrangement. They are Chassidish, and I guess maybe her kid would eat treif in my house? Whatever, it's okay. They are not the whole Lakewood.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, May 25 2016, 9:29 am

amother wrote:

Another point it was three families who made complaints against him not one. They brought in a special therapist from Brooklyn specializing for kids. And yes the doctor confirmed the story because what the kids said about the husband is despicable. Please don't distort facts and defend a molester. No one leaves town if they are innocent and you are harming these children more by saying that it's not true.

The mother who spoke to the doctor is such a normal good mother please don't make her into a crazy person because she defended her child.

It was first one, and then with unprofessional questioning of-2/3 year olds, it became 3. If it was true, why didn't they go to the police, like the accused dared them to? And why did they try to hush up the story when the accused tried to defend himself. And why did many of the "rabbanim" apologize and the others clame they didn't say he for sure did it, just wanted to be safe and decided that it was ok to ruin his life to accomplish that. And yes he did have a full time job. And was almost never home which his boss testified to. And any doctor who makes a claim that some one is a molester based on some 3 year olds story, where many of the details could not have been true should not be in practice. 3 year olds are very suggestive. He went to the therapist they wanted him to go to, and that therapist felt he wasn't a pedophile. I do know the family well, and when I first heard about it, I believed it (cuz it was told as matter of fact) and was sick to my stomach and couldn't sleep for a week. Only after investigating did I find out what was really going on. At the same time there was another story about the husband of another morah who was also accused with sordid stories that happened in their basement, but lucky for them, they don't actually have a basement and the story died down. And I don't defend ppl based on if they are family our not. The other mother that I was talking about is actually a close relative and is active on social media and ppl always comment on how she is such a wonderful mother but they don't know how she is verbally and emotionally abusive to her child and, while I haven't seen her hit her child, she definitely gets violent around her child.

cnc

Wed, May 25 2016, 9:30 am

amother wrote:

I'm so sorry. My children's safety comes before other people's feelings.

I unfortunately know way too many stories so I'd rather be safe than sorry. (And these are not stories that I heard about third hand...- as I mentioned previously my child had 2 parents that were molesters in the class).

I should add that it's not the playdate that it's the issue. I'm pretty flexible with letting anyone come to me. I'm just not so comfortable with them going to others.

amother

Cerulean

Wed, May 25 2016, 9:39 am

Any way, that was on a tangent.
Back to the subject on hand. I had to find a babysitter very quickly at one point, so I asked someone I trust, (who is a victim of abuse herself) who she sends to. She recommended her neighbor and I sent there without as much research. I quickly found out that her husband works allot from home, and at times may help her a bit. So I did research. I called the rav in the neighborhood and asked if he ever gets complaints. I spoke to neighbors and other ppl who have sent there. I do come at all times of day and I was concerned because they keep the door locked because they have a child that's a runner and a bit of an escape artist, but when the child is out, they don't use multiple locks. I feel that I did my due diligence and am now comfortable sending him there and am even glad that in case of emergency, there is another adult in the house. (She only has a few kids, so didn't need an assistant) so I Do I get your concern. So follow through, do research until your comfortable, and if you can't get comfortable, don't sent.

sky

Wed, May 25 2016, 10:05 am

I've been lucky enough that my children's babysitter (who is a registered nurse and knows CPR) and other playgroup morahs are people in my neighborhood and I do know them well. I"m in their houses a lot. Our husbands daven with each other and socialize. Our older children play together. I'm lucky in that aspect.

amother wrote:

This has nothing to do with movies. It has to do with safety.
I will not send my children to someone's home unless I know them or look into them. For younger children I'm especially careful. I've called the morah of the group and asked for information about the family and if they know anyone who we would both mutually know that I can call. With my older kids I'm not as on top of it, but I do try to at least know something about the parents. I don't think I'm being over cautious. I've had some kids come to play in my house and I would not want my children in their house after hearing about how they go with zero supervision or based on how they speak.

sky

Wed, May 25 2016, 10:08 am

Chayalle wrote:

I have a friend who is not chassidish and her children are also allowed to not play in anyone's home, including my own. It doesn't bother me, she feels it easier to make a blanket statement then pick and choose. She also doesn't send her children on school buses because they are unsupservised. they are her children to protect.

Chayalle

Wed, May 25 2016, 10:23 am

sky wrote:

to each their own. Every parent draws the protection line somewhere. Personally, I don't draw it so close as I feel that developing a strong sense of self and independence can be more important to a child's safety than excessive monitoring. As we can see, it's not all in our control, and there comes a point where more vigilance does not necessarily equal more safety. I consider the bus experience, and play dates, and at a certain age, sleepovers...to be part of growing up normally, so within certain parameters I allow them.

amother

Wheat

Wed, May 25 2016, 10:28 am

I hear you all.
To be clear, what I am saying is referring to playdates with school age children not a babysitter for which of course one would check references. As an aside, the rates of molestation for children under 3 are very, very small.

Anyway, so my deal is I trust my kids. If they want to play at someone's house, they're friends and like that person and likely won't be doing crazy things together because my kids are fairly normal kids who do normal kid things. So I would be fine with a playdate. They may get into uncomfortable situations but I mostly figure that over an hour or two, the probability of crisis is low. And I think they'll be able to manage enough till I come and we can talk about it if they are really having an awful time.

I also feel that a reputation for being a "good" family isn't really very helpful in vetting a playdate. Again, I'm not talking about a babysitter or an overnight visit. I think it gives an illusion of control without offering the safety we all crave for our loved ones.

I think the best shot at avoiding molestation is awareness and talking with our children and teaching them to protect themselves and to speak up if they are uncomfortable and ensuring that they feel we will respond without judgement or shame.

My point about movies was only that this is like a capital crime in Lkwd when you never really know who does what. Even if they seem to be so religious. In much the same way, a molester may be one of the ppl you actually know IRL who would never be someone you think. Not all molesters are creepy and obvious. unfortunately.

But banning play dates with classmates who your child likes and is comfortable with just because you don't know their family doesn't seem to me to be a very effective method of protection. Just an illusion.

Chayalle

Wed, May 25 2016, 10:35 am

amother wrote:

I think the best shot at avoiding molestation is awareness and talking with our children and teaching them to protect themselves and to speak up if they are uncomfortable and ensuring that they feel we will respond without judgement or shame.

Well said.

amother wrote:

But banning play dates with classmates who your child likes and is comfortable with just because you don't know their family doesn't seem to me to be a very effective method of protection. Just an illusion.

I hear you. I still feel better waiting till I meet the mother, get to know them a bit, before I send my child to their home.

BTW I've met super-frum people who creep me out, for some reason or another, and I just redirect my kids elsewhere....this is not a "frum" issue. It's a I'm-comfortable-trusting-you-with-my-child issue.

My big girls won't babysit for you if I don't feel comfortable with you. There's a super-farfrumt family I won't send my girls to, because the husband creeps me out. Can't explain why, but it just is. I'm their mother, and I won't ignore my own instincts.