Dont want to be considered "ooter"

amother

Powderblue

Wed, May 25 2016, 10:02 am

hi everyone,
we live in ny now but we really want to buy a house and settle down,
the thing is we cant afford ny prices and we are seriously considering to move out of town where we could buy a nice size house (and hopefully with all our savings ) have no morgage,
BUT
I am very concerned about being considered the "out of towner" and I also dont want my kids to feel that( and probaby be that!) especially when they get shidduch age,
what do all you smart ladies think about this???
tia

amother

Jade

Wed, May 25 2016, 10:25 am

Super proud of being an OOTner. I didn't find shidduchim that much more complicated than my friends from seminary who lived in NY. I had people suggesting things to me- they usually were so off that I didn't go out with them. Like "your dad is a dentist and this guy has bad teeth" Or "you have red hair and so does he" (neither of us do...) type of suggestions (and my dad isn't a dentist but that was how absurd some were). But that had more to do with the shadchanim than my "living status".

And your kids can always live in NY after seminary. Solves a lot of the issues. Yes, you will be living OOT but she will have easier access to dating/shadchanim.

My sister married the first guy she was suggested- it was just that perfect for her!

Why should location be a problem? Living OOT is the best! Less competition to out do the Cohens. Less peer pressure over dumb things like what brand of shoes you wear. You can be as frum as you want your family to be.
We aren't all one type. We are as diverse as UWS is to Boro Park or Williamsburg. There is no one "OOT"!

gold21

Wed, May 25 2016, 10:51 am

Many people specifically prefer out-of-towners when looking into shidduchim

So... why the worry?

amother

Powderblue

Wed, May 25 2016, 10:58 am

thank..... interesting whta you saying but you never heard of someone say oh she from ______ how nebby or she probably very out of it...
also am I wrong to say there are 2 types of oot communities,
eg miami, detriot out of town but very strong and built up
and then there is cincinatti, south bend those really new communities??

gold21

Wed, May 25 2016, 11:03 am

amother wrote:

Youll find just as much prejudice against girls from Bklyn as youll find against girls from South Bend...

Jeanette

Wed, May 25 2016, 11:04 am

You have to do what's right for your family.

Do your research, speak to people who live there, visit for a shabbos, figure out if it's a good fit. As other posters pointed out, every community has its own flavor. Some communities are large enough that you have your pick of schools/Shuls, in other places your options may be more limited.

One word of advice though, don't go in with the attitude that these people are nebby, out of it, whatever. It will make you look very shallow and immature and won't win you many friends.

Iymnok

Wed, May 25 2016, 11:18 am

An OOTer has a certain charm and confidence in their Yiddishkeit. They have a clear worldview and are open minded in a non-otd way.
They are often more self sufficient.

There is a beautiful rich world outside of New York.

Homemade pizza is delicious too!

amother

Purple

Wed, May 25 2016, 11:43 am

I live in town and I'm moving OOT. I get your concerns. I have those concerns too- a lot!!
But I want the emotionally healthy upbringing OOT has to offer.
It seems so much more well balanced than NY life
Not to mention lower stress levels due to more suburban neighborhood and more money to go around

Fox

Wed, May 25 2016, 11:46 am

I've lived in Chicago most of my life, but I also love NY and used to spend extended periods of time there (at one point, DH was essentially commuting and we had an apartment). Here are some thoughts:

The World Has Gotten Flatter
Internet access and cheap transportation are lessening the differences between OOT and in-town.

For example, 25 years ago, I did most of my clothes shopping in Brooklyn. I don't enjoy shopping, so having lots of stores selling tznius and/or frum styles in a concentrated area was worth adding a day to a business trip or family simcha.

But I haven't actually gone to Brooklyn for shopping since, I think, 2005. Why? Because everything is easily available online, and for the few specialty items that aren't, I can ask a question on Imamother and find a dozen places to call and order whatever I want.

Likewise, a trip to NY from the Midwest used to be a pretty big deal. Even bargain flights were pricey, and you had to go through a travel agent and make dozens of calls to get exactly what you wanted. Now, everyone travels to and from NY as if it were nothing. A round-trip ticket from Chicago can be found for as little as $120, and you make your reservation online.

OOT Isn't Quite So Far Out
Another change I've seen in the last few decades is the incredible growth in OOT communities. Places like Chicago, LA, and Miami have communities with virtually all the conveniences and options of NY, and places that were just beginning to grow, such as Atlanta, are now fully functioning, self-sustaining communities. When someone says "OOT" today, I think of places like Phoenix and Las Vegas.

There are also lots of smaller communities in the Tri-State area that offer various OOT benefits without being too far to easily visit family in NY.

Back when people were still trying to convince me to move to Brooklyn, they used to hold up the number of shiurim, restaurants, stores, and other types of infrastructure as an argument. As I pointed out, though, exactly how many different shiurim do you attend each week? How many different restaurants do you frequent? Most of us, wherever we live, find certain amenities to our liking and patronize them repeatedly. Having 50 pizza shops isn't a huge advantage if you only really like one or two.

Brooklynites Are Less Parochial
I remember a distant relative by marriage saying to me in 1990, "It must be wonderful for you to come to NY and see other Jewish people walking around." This was from a woman without a mean bone in her body. She was just spectacularly ignorant. She'd travelled to exactly two places in her life: Miami and the Catskills. She basically envisioned a world in which the earth ended slightly beyond Hershey, PA, and dragons would eat you if you fell off.

Thankfully, there are fewer and fewer of those people around any more. In fact, the relative who annoyed me with her stupid question in 1990 has since accompanied her husband all over the country on business travel, and she's become a lot less Brooklyn-centric. I was recently shocked when her DH mentioned he had elected to layover in Chicago rather than Pittsburgh because he wanted to go to his favorite restaurant.

You still find the occasional person who's shocked that there's Jewish life outside of Brooklyn, but I think it's becoming less socially acceptable to express that. Increasingly, it seems like being "with it" in Brooklyn means knowing that other places exist.

So how will living OOT affect your kids?

I'm obviously biased, but I think it's a great thing for kids to feel "bi-cultural" when it comes to NY or any dense urban area. Living OOT often means plenty of open space for outdoor play; easy access to parks; more green areas -- which is great for kids. And spending time with family and friends in NY helps them feel comfortable in a busy urban center. We never know where life will take us, and helping kids feel comfortable and confident in a variety of settings is almost always an advantage.

amother

Babypink

Wed, May 25 2016, 11:49 am

amother wrote:

Lol, but the South Bend community goes back to 1887!

5mom

Wed, May 25 2016, 11:56 am

amother wrote:

If your friends say things like that, get out of town fast! It may even be too late.

By the way, Cincinnati had a shul in 1824. The first shul in Brooklyn was founded in 1869.

Fox

Wed, May 25 2016, 11:58 am

gold21 wrote:

Youll find just as much prejudice against girls from Bklyn as youll find against girls from South Bend...

With several DDs in shidduchim, let me confirm this.

Granted, we aren't looking for boys in the subsection of Brooklyn that insists on size 0 girls; size 4 MILs; and large dowries. However, a question that has been asked repeatedly of our references is, "Would you say that [fill in Clementine, Drusilla, or Prunella] is 'New Yorky'?" By which they mean high-maintenance, shallow, and materialistic.

And sometimes this comes from people in Brooklyn!

Now, that's a very unfair stereotype, but it is a lot more common than I would have thought.

Iymnok

Wed, May 25 2016, 12:00 pm

The Main ashkenazi shul in Seattle was established in 1889. It has been constantly functioning since then.

amother

Powderblue

Wed, May 25 2016, 12:01 pm

thank you everyone you really really helping me,

but just to clarify is there a difference between lets call them "big" oot and " smaller" oot places?
( as I mentioned miami , chicago, detriot, and im not sure what small oot will mean lets just say cincinatti )

Iymnok

Wed, May 25 2016, 12:03 pm

amother wrote:

I'm assuming that by small, you mean number of shuls and schools, lack of restaurants and unreliable minyanim?

observer

Wed, May 25 2016, 12:04 pm

I think there is a big difference between the "big" OOT and "small" OOT places.

chocolatecake

Wed, May 25 2016, 12:04 pm

I am from the midwest and currently live in brooklyn. I personally think that oot is a much healthier place to raise kids. The.kids come out.much more open mimded and less elitist. There is much more labeling in ny. Yob is simple yeshivish. Bya flatbush yeshivish. Prospect more modern etc. U send ur kid to the box u fit. Oot there are much less schools so u have the range of yob to prospect all in same school and the kids are exposed to much more types and there is less labeling. I would move oot for the chinuch in a second. There is one big thing keeping me here and that is family. As a kid I did not have any cousins nearby and I definitely felt a void. I want my kids to have cousins at least within a two hr.drive....

amother

Jade

Wed, May 25 2016, 12:05 pm

LOL about Brooklynites not realizing the world didn't end at the Hudson. Ok, maybe now in New Jersey.
I have had NYers not believe we have enough yidden to have a choice of Shuls. Or that OOT was all commutable to each other. That we have a Judaica store, kosher grocery, mikvah, pizza and other frum life necessities. "How can you be frum outside of NY?"
And this is within the last 5 years! Banging head

I wonder why they didn't ask if we had to raise and shect our own chickens...

greenfire

Wed, May 25 2016, 12:07 pm

from brooklyn to cleveland ... out-of-town is where you no longer live - not where you move to ... baby just own it

PinkFridge

Wed, May 25 2016, 12:10 pm

I do not have the time or presence of mind to answer well at the moment.
And I wish I could digest all the wonderful posts here. But, and these are devarim shenichnasim min halev: do what's best for your family. Don't worry about perceptions because they may well be misperceptions. If you have a moreh or morah derech, speak to him or her. Moving could be a big bracha now.

I was going to go to immediate reactions first before even opening and write, because that would be a fate worse than death Twisted Evil

But I was sure that you were someone who deserves to have her concerns listened to and taken seriously. (And I didn't want you to think ooters were snarky Wink

) I am sure I would love to have you for a neighbor and wish you well. As it says in Tehillim, I think perek 16, Atah tomich gorali....