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Cincinnati zoo kills gorilla to save child
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 31 2016, 7:11 pm
Developmentally, I imagine it is hard for a 4-year-old to grasp the scale of the gorilla from the distance of observation.
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Rachel Shira




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 31 2016, 7:25 pm
The boy must be severely traumatized, I can't even imagine. First, he falls 15 feet into water. Then, a giant gorilla (not as cute as he thought it would be!) drags him around on rocks while everyone shouts hysterically. Then, the gorilla is shot dead right in front of him.

I tried watching the video but couldn't get past 10 seconds, it freaked me out so much. Whether or not the gorilla was trying to protect him, it was still insanely scary and dangerous and of course the zoo did the right thing.
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bluebird




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 31 2016, 8:16 pm
I came across a great post from a (former) zookeeper who worked with gorillas discussing this. It's in support of both killing the gorilla because it had to be done, and making sure that this never happens again by fixing the problems with enclosures.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.....eater

Here's the full text. I put it in spoiler tags so this post isn't huge.

Hidden: 

Quote:
I am going to try to clear up a few things that have been weighing on me about Harambe and the Cinci Zoo since I read the news this afternoon.
I have worked with Gorillas as a zookeeper while in my twenties (before children) and they are my favorite animal (out of dozens) that I have ever worked closely with. I am gonna go ahead and list a few facts, thoughts and opinions for those of you that aren't familiar with the species itself, or how a zoo operates in emergency situations.

Now Gorillas are considered 'gentle giants' at least when compared with their more aggressive cousins the chimpanzee, but a 400+ pound male in his prime is as strong as roughly 10 adult humans. What can you bench press? OK, now multiply that number by ten. An adult male silverback gorilla has one job, to protect his group. He does this by bluffing or intimidating anything that he feels threatened by.

Gorillas are considered a Class 1 mammal, the most dangerous class of mammals in the animal kingdom, again, merely due to their size and strength. They are grouped in with other apes, tigers, lions, bears, etc.
While working in an AZA accredited zoo with Apes, keepers DO NOT work in contact with them. Meaning they do NOT go in with these animals. There is always a welded mesh barrier between the animal and the humans.
In more recent decades, zoos have begun to redesign enclosures, removing all obvious caging and attempting to create a seamless view of the animals for the visitor to enjoy watching animals in a more natural looking habitat. *this is great until little children begin falling into exhibits* which of course can happen to anyone, especially in a crowded zoo-like setting.

I have watched this video over again, and with the silverback's postering, and tight lips, it's pretty much the stuff of any keeper's nightmares, and I have had MANY while working with them. This job is not for the complacent. Gorillas are kind, curious, and sometimes silly, but they are also very large, very strong animals. I always brought my OCD to work with me. checking and rechecking locks to make sure my animals and I remained separated before entering to clean.

I keep hearing that the Gorilla was trying to protect the boy. I do not find this to be true. Harambe reaches for the boys hands and arms, but only to position the child better for his own displaying purposes.
Males do very elaborate displays when highly agitated, slamming and dragging things about. Typically they would drag large branches, barrels and heavy weighted balls around to make as much noise as possible. Not in an effort to hurt anyone or anything (usually) but just to intimidate. It was clear to me that he was reacting to the screams coming from the gathering crowd.

Harambe was most likely not going to separate himself from that child without seriously hurting him first (again due to mere size and strength, not malicious intent) Why didn't they use treats? well, they attempted to call them off exhibit (which animals hate), the females in the group came in, but Harambe did not. What better treat for a captive animal than a real live kid!
They didn't use Tranquilizers for a few reasons, A. Harambe would've taken too long to become immobilized, and could have really injured the child in the process as the drugs used may not work quickly enough depending on the stress of the situation and the dose B. Harambe would've have drowned in the moat if immobilized in the water, and possibly fallen on the boy trapping him and drowning him as well.
Many zoos have the protocol to call on their expertly trained dart team in the event of an animal escape or in the event that a human is trapped with a dangerous animal. They will evaluate the scene as quickly and as safely as possible, and will make the most informed decision as how they will handle the animal.
I can't point fingers at anyone in this situation, but we need to really evaluate the safety of the animal enclosures from the visitor side. Not impeding that view is a tough one, but there should be no way that someone can find themselves inside of an animal's exhibit.
I know one thing for sure, those keepers lost a beautiful, and I mean gorgeous silverback and friend. I feel their loss with them this week. As educators and conservators of endangered species, all we can do is shine a light on the beauty and majesty of these animals in hopes to spark a love and a need to keep them from vanishing from our planet. Child killers, they are not. It's unfortunate for the conservation of the species, and the loss of revenue a beautiful zoo such as Cinci will lose. tragedy all around.
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Nikki




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 31 2016, 8:23 pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new......html

It looks like the police are investigating the parents according to this article.
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Rachel Shira




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 31 2016, 8:42 pm
Nikki wrote:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3618868/Police-announce-investigating-parents-three-year-old-boy-fell-zoo-s-gorilla-enclosure-following-angry-campaign-calling-pair-prosecuted.html

It looks like the police are investigating the parents according to this article.


Yes, and why are on earth are they doing that? It has nothing to do with what happened.
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ChutzPAh




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 31 2016, 9:06 pm
Upside down world, when people are more concerned over a gorilla than a child.
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seeker




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, May 31 2016, 9:46 pm
As a total aside, I can't understand that people (including the former zookeeper in hidden quote above) keep saying that one reason not to use a tranquilizer is because the gorilla could fall on top of the child. And if you kill him he is less likely to land on the kid? I just really don't get that.

I do get that there are other reasons to kill rather than tranquilize (such as tranquilizers taking too long and potentially causing greater agitation) so I don't understand why this incomprehensible one keeps getting thrown in. Am I missing something?
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mirror




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 01 2016, 1:24 pm
Breeding involves artificial insemination for Gorillas. No, you don't need them to actually mate. Yes, I do know what I'm talking about.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219298/

Quote:
Chapter 34Cryobiology, Embryo Transfer, and Artificial Insemination in Ex Situ Animal Conservation Programs
BETSY L. DRESSER


Quote:
Artificial Insemination

Artificial insemination is the introduction of semen into the private part or cervix by artificial means. This procedure was supposedly used by the Arabs in ancient times, but the first documented success in the modern world occurred in 1784 with the artificial insemination of a dog (Betteridge, 1981). In the 1930s, artificial insemination of livestock was used extensively in Russia. Arthur Walton demonstrated its potential as an effective method to transport genes in the 1920s and 1930s by shipping fresh rabbit, sheep, and bull semen from England to other European countries (Betteridge, 1981). The ability to successfully freeze semen resulted from the discovery of the cryoprotective action of glycerol by Polge, Smith, and Parkes in 1949 (Betteridge, 1981). Artificial insemination is very common in the agricultural industry today. Foote (1981) estimated that close to 90 million head of cattle were produced worldwide in 1977 by artificial insemination with previously frozen semen samples. Artificial insemination has had limited success in wild animals thus far, especially with certain species of mammals and birds. Success has been attained for the following species:

Nondomestic Mammals
Addax1 Brown brocket deer Ferret Rhesus monkey
Guanaco Reindeer Fox1 Baboon
Llama Red deer Wolf1 Squirrel monkey
Blackbuck1 Speke's gazelle Persian leopard Chimpanzee1
Bighorn sheep Giant panda1 Puma Gorilla1
1
Frozen semen.

Birds Reptiles
Cranes (several species) Waterfowl (ducks) Tortoises1
Albino cockatiel Pheasants
Raptors

1 Frozen semen.
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Raisin




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 01 2016, 2:20 pm
mirror wrote:
Breeding involves artificial insemination for Gorillas. No, you don't need them to actually mate. Yes, I do know what I'm talking about.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219298/

Quote:
Chapter 34Cryobiology, Embryo Transfer, and Artificial Insemination in Ex Situ Animal Conservation Programs
BETSY L. DRESSER


Quote:
Artificial Insemination

Artificial insemination is the introduction of semen into the private part or cervix by artificial means. This procedure was supposedly used by the Arabs in ancient times, but the first documented success in the modern world occurred in 1784 with the artificial insemination of a dog (Betteridge, 1981). In the 1930s, artificial insemination of livestock was used extensively in Russia. Arthur Walton demonstrated its potential as an effective method to transport genes in the 1920s and 1930s by shipping fresh rabbit, sheep, and bull semen from England to other European countries (Betteridge, 1981). The ability to successfully freeze semen resulted from the discovery of the cryoprotective action of glycerol by Polge, Smith, and Parkes in 1949 (Betteridge, 1981). Artificial insemination is very common in the agricultural industry today. Foote (1981) estimated that close to 90 million head of cattle were produced worldwide in 1977 by artificial insemination with previously frozen semen samples. Artificial insemination has had limited success in wild animals thus far, especially with certain species of mammals and birds. Success has been attained for the following species:

Nondomestic Mammals
Addax1 Brown brocket deer Ferret Rhesus monkey
Guanaco Reindeer Fox1 Baboon
Llama Red deer Wolf1 Squirrel monkey
Blackbuck1 Speke's gazelle Persian leopard Chimpanzee1
Bighorn sheep Giant panda1 Puma Gorilla1
1
Frozen semen.

Birds Reptiles
Cranes (several species) Waterfowl (ducks) Tortoises1
Albino cockatiel Pheasants
Raptors

1 Frozen semen.


I was wondering about that. They use artificial insemination in cows afaik. But maybe the female gorillas are happier with a male around and make better mothers?
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Hashem_Yaazor




 
 
    
 

Post Wed, Jun 01 2016, 2:24 pm
seeker wrote:
As a total aside, I can't understand that people (including the former zookeeper in hidden quote above) keep saying that one reason not to use a tranquilizer is because the gorilla could fall on top of the child. And if you kill him he is less likely to land on the kid? I just really don't get that.

I do get that there are other reasons to kill rather than tranquilize (such as tranquilizers taking too long and potentially causing greater agitation) so I don't understand why this incomprehensible one keeps getting thrown in. Am I missing something?

Aiming to kill when the gorilla is a distance away from the child means it won't fall on him. Tranquilizers means he may walk around for a little while and drop at any point, possibly on the kid.
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observer




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 02 2016, 8:43 am
This should answer some of the questions. It's a briefing by the zoo director.

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observer




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 02 2016, 8:44 am
mirror wrote:
Breeding involves artificial insemination for Gorillas. No, you don't need them to actually mate. Yes, I do know what I'm talking about.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK219298/

Quote:
Chapter 34Cryobiology, Embryo Transfer, and Artificial Insemination in Ex Situ Animal Conservation Programs
BETSY L. DRESSER


Quote:
Artificial Insemination

Artificial insemination is the introduction of semen into the private part or cervix by artificial means. This procedure was supposedly used by the Arabs in ancient times, but the first documented success in the modern world occurred in 1784 with the artificial insemination of a dog (Betteridge, 1981). In the 1930s, artificial insemination of livestock was used extensively in Russia. Arthur Walton demonstrated its potential as an effective method to transport genes in the 1920s and 1930s by shipping fresh rabbit, sheep, and bull semen from England to other European countries (Betteridge, 1981). The ability to successfully freeze semen resulted from the discovery of the cryoprotective action of glycerol by Polge, Smith, and Parkes in 1949 (Betteridge, 1981). Artificial insemination is very common in the agricultural industry today. Foote (1981) estimated that close to 90 million head of cattle were produced worldwide in 1977 by artificial insemination with previously frozen semen samples. Artificial insemination has had limited success in wild animals thus far, especially with certain species of mammals and birds. Success has been attained for the following species:

Nondomestic Mammals
Addax1 Brown brocket deer Ferret Rhesus monkey
Guanaco Reindeer Fox1 Baboon
Llama Red deer Wolf1 Squirrel monkey
Blackbuck1 Speke's gazelle Persian leopard Chimpanzee1
Bighorn sheep Giant panda1 Puma Gorilla1
1
Frozen semen.

Birds Reptiles
Cranes (several species) Waterfowl (ducks) Tortoises1
Albino cockatiel Pheasants
Raptors

1 Frozen semen.


They have frozen sperm from this gorilla.
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observer




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 02 2016, 8:45 am
Raisin wrote:
I was wondering about that. They use artificial insemination in cows afaik. But maybe the female gorillas are happier with a male around and make better mothers?

They allow them to mate, as well. The two methods are not mutually exclusive.
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Jeanette




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 02 2016, 9:02 am
I don't understand the push to prosecute the parents. Yes I know people are looking for a scapegoat. But unless there's evidence of egregious neglect (leaving the kid there and walking away) you can't charge them unless you're also going to criminalize the hundreds of parents who lose sight of their children in public places every day.
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 02 2016, 9:24 am
Artificial insemination rarely works with gorillas. In vitro fertilization works slightly better but is dangerous due to the multiple anesthesia procedures.

And the sperm they collected from harambe won't be used for reproduction.
http://www.sciencealert.com/ha.....death

Mirror you quoted a book from 1988.
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treestump




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 03 2016, 10:43 am
Brilliant parody!

http://www.onlysimchas.com/new.....tacks

Looking to raise awareness and concern over the flood of rockets launched from the Gaza Strip for the past decade, Israel has decided to place gorillas throughout the communities and neighboring towns surrounding Gaza.

“For years we’ve highlighted the deaths of innocent men, women, and children from these rockets, but people throughout Europe and on college campuses in the U.S. continued to support Hamas,” a spokesman for the Israeli government told The Mideast Beast. “After seeing the outpouring of anger over the death of Harambe the gorilla, we realized we’ve been doing it all wrong.”
Israel will now place a handful of gorillas in Ashdod, Ashkelon, Sderot and other communities in the south that have seen a high number of rocket attacks. While Hamas publicly insists the move won’t change its military approach, some Hamas commanders expressed concern in private conversations.

“If one of our rockets were to kill a gorilla, we would completely alienate our core support base of 18 to 22-year-old left-wing American Facebook commenters,” one senior Hamas official told The Mideast Beast off record. “That’s not a risk we can take lightly.”

In response, Hamas has announced plans to acquire relatives of Cecil the Lion to place in Gaza neighborhoods in order to encourage Israeli airstrikes. “Using Cecil’s relatives as human shields will certainly work to help us convince the international community to ostracize Israel, as it has the dentist who killed Cecil. Plus, we’ll have more children around whose spare hands we could use to dig tunnels. So, you know, win–win!”

Source: The Middle Beast and this is just parody of course, or is it?
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mom2six




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jun 04 2016, 1:04 pm
I was a little bothered by the zookeeper's answer to whether or not they would recheck their barriers. He said that they would, but the reason he kept giving was because they lost an animal and don't want to lose any more. What about so that innocent children don't end up in cages and possibly be hurt or killed? That seemed secondary to him.
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Rachel Shira




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jun 04 2016, 6:36 pm
mom2six wrote:
I was a little bothered by the zookeeper's answer to whether or not they would recheck their barriers. He said that they would, but the reason he kept giving was because they lost an animal and don't want to lose any more. What about so that innocent children don't end up in cages and possibly be hurt or killed? That seemed secondary to him.


I thought the same thing. Very strange. Even if his personal feelings are that animals are the most important, wouldn't he make the world happy by saying that he's doing it for the safety of the visitors?
I hope that they will change something.
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tryinghard




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jun 04 2016, 7:10 pm
He was playing a very careful dance of not blaming anybody. It could be that saying it that way would imply that the zoo was negligent.
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Rubber Ducky




 
 
    
 

Post Sat, Jun 04 2016, 7:19 pm
The lawyers are circling overhead...
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