8 yr old son, speech therapist dressed sleeveless...advice?

amother

Smokey

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 10:17 am

Hi,
I am really not to sure what to do!
My 8 yr old son, goes to speech-with me, the therapist isn't jewish, and now with the beautiful warm weather out there, yesterday she was dressed sleeveless!!!!
This is so awkward, and I really don't know what to do about it, I don't feel comfortable with him facing her directly and seeing her skin once a week when we go...
Btw, we are chassidish
Any advice?

thunderstorm

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 10:19 am

You can just tell your son how proud we should be that we dress tzniusdig. You can no way under the sun ever request a non jewish or non religious person to dress tzniusdig for you , that would just be rude.

Maya

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 10:21 am

I don't see the problem. Do you expect him to live his entire life without seeing a woman in a sleeveless dress?

If you don't make an issue out of it and don't mention it to him, I'll bet he didn't even realize it was a problem. The bigger the issue you make of it, the more enticing it will be for him.

thunderstorm

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 11:15 am

amother wrote:

wowoww....
I shouldn't have posted this here on imamother, I should have gone directly to ppl in my community that understand me from where I am coming from better.
Guess we live and learn

That's the problem here...there are communities that feel they can tell a [gentile] how to dress...I know that in one of the WIC offices they expect the women to dress tznius and they give their cleaning women dresses to wear while they clean....there is no halacha stating that non jews need to dress tzniusdig for you. You need to teach your children from a young age to be proud of their heritage and to teach tznius and sensitivity to your children. You can teach them to look away when they see something "prust" but sleeveless is not something I would get concerned about at all! That's the world you live in!
My DS went on a trip to the zoo the other day with his cheder. The rebbeim gave a speeach to the kids how important it is to make a kiddush Hashem and if they see a not tzniusdig [gentile] they should NOT cover their eyes in front of them and say "foy!foy!" because making a kiddush hashem is important! They were just told not to look at inappropriately dressed people and not to make a big deal

pesek zman

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 11:22 am

amother wrote:

wowoww....
I shouldn't have posted this here on imamother, I should have gone directly to ppl in my community that understand me from where I am coming from better.
Guess we live and learn

What did you expect us to say? That you should buy her a cardigan and give it to her to wear during your session? That you should have your child wear an eye mask so he shouldn't see her arms?

Neither of those would have been appropriate suggestions, which is why they weren't made. Short of that, what did you want us to say?

DrMom

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 11:24 am

amother wrote:

wowoww....
I shouldn't have posted this here on imamother, I should have gone directly to ppl in my community that understand me from where I am coming from better.
Guess we live and learn

I understand that it is uncomfortable, but what sort of answers were you expecting? Your options are (1) learn how to deal with it or (2) find a chassidish therapist.

I don't see any other options. How do you think your community members woold advise you that differs from these choices?

Edited to add: Cross-posted with pesek zman.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 11:26 am

I am a speech therapist. When going to someone's home I am receptive to clothing rules (eg take off shoes, no shorts, etc). However, if you are going to HER place of employment, you have no right to ask her to cover up. Your son is eventually going to realize that the whole world isn't chasidish, and the bigger a deal you make out of women's bare arms, the more he will fetishize this later. He's 8, bare arms won't matter to him at all.

amother

Burgundy

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 11:27 am

amother wrote:

wowoww....
I shouldn't have posted this here on imamother, I should have gone directly to ppl in my community that understand me from where I am coming from better.
Guess we live and learn

Are you supposed to be on the Internet?
People in your community would probably say to find a Chasidish therapist.

Maya

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 11:29 am

amother wrote:

wowoww....
I shouldn't have posted this here on imamother, I should have gone directly to ppl in my community that understand me from where I am coming from better.
Guess we live and learn

If the women in the community advise you to do something other than has been mentioned here, they are wrong.

In addition, someone with more knowledge about the law can tell you what legal issues would be involved in asking a woman to cover up.

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 11:32 am

The non-Jewish workers at our local Jewish schools are instructed to dress according to the standard dress code (knees, elbows, etc).

Outside of a Jewish environment you really cannot expect this, although at my various secular workplaces basic professional standards of dress are expected. Short sleeves and sleeveless tops are usually considered ok, but not see-through garments or a lot of cleavage. If the therapist is "letting it all hang out," perhaps her supervisor will notice and speak with her.

If there is a very large Chassidish clientele, cultural sensitivity training may be helpful so they understand your point of view better. But I still don't think you can mandate that she follow your practices if the clinic is in a secular setting.

MagentaYenta

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 12:02 pm

Welcome to the real world outside of your bubble. The world does not need to conform to your standards especially when you are on their turf.

I don't know how old your son is but I seriously doubt he's gonna get turned on by seeing a womans upper arms.

sky

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 12:08 pm

I also wouldn't be comfortable. But you can't ask her to do differently. If it is a private practice then they have their own dress code.

I do know of some schools that have a uniform for all teachers (like have to wear jackets and\or blazers) and it is specifically to help with this issue and tight clothing.

My kids go to an eye doctor who is very good but she dresses in very short skirts and tight clothing. For now I still go (boys are 8 and 10) but I don't think I will continue past a certain age and switch to an eye dr in the practice who is equally as good. I'm not yet sure what that age will be.

Maybe

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 1:11 pm

1. Have you inquired about frum therapists ?

2.How bad is his speech, can you wait until you find a frum or male therapist ?

3.Can you delay therapy until after the summer?

Although he can't avoid seeing non tznius, why place it in front of him ?

By practicing what you preach, you are sending a powerful message.

greenfire

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 2:35 pm

you have no say or control of the world around you ... your child is 8 don't poke out his eyes just yet

please be non-nonchalant & respectful of the therapist ... if your goal is to be insular you might have to forego this specialist - but how will you stop him from noticing these things elsewhere

DrMom

Wed, Jun 01 2016, 2:37 pm

Maybe wrote:

I assume OP does practice what she preaches. She just shouldn't preach to total strangers.