STEM majors (or former majors) - what were the challenges?

ora_43

Wed, Jun 15 2016, 2:03 pm

I'm interested in the factors that make majoring in STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering or math) more or less doable.

I'd be very interested in hearing from anyone who majored in or is majoring in a STEM subject, or who considered majoring in a STEM field but decided not to, or began a program in a STEM field but later switched majors. Especially those of you in Israel. What made your field (/the field you considered) appealing? What was difficult about it? I mean, beyond the obvious academic aspects like "everybody hates organic chem."

Specific questions:
- did you/do you have tutors? study partners? were the TAs helpful?
- were the professors helpful? If students said they didn't understand the material, how did the professor react?
- were you able to work while studying for your degree?
- did you know people "like you" (women, religious women, parents, chassidic Jews from North Dakota - whatever "like you" means to you) in your major? or who had completed your program?
- if you considered a STEM major but decided against it, or started a STEM program and then left, what were your reasons for not doing it?

I know these are all very personal questions. My thanks in advance to anyone who bothers to answer, whether in this thread or by PM.

amother

Slateblue

Wed, Jun 15 2016, 2:24 pm

Quote:

I'd be very interested in hearing from anyone who majored in or is majoring in a STEM subject, or who considered majoring in a STEM field but decided not to, or began a program in a STEM field but later switched majors. Especially those of you in Israel. What made your field (/the field you considered) appealing?

Funnily enough, I had recently moved and I think, in retrospect, I must have had some PPD in addition to or partially caused by being uprooted from friends, employment etc. I think that moseying down to a nearby university saved my sanity.

But when I took the Strong-Campbell Interest Inventory, which measures what fields you would likely enjoy (as opposed to measuring your aptitude) the results were to work with computers vs. people. Whereas I really am a people-person (just an introverted one who enjoys people one-on-one - and could have made a great therapist etc) I was so down that anything people-oriented didn't seem to appeal to me at that point.

Although designing software really does require a lot of intuitive interaction with people to understand their stated and unstated needs!

Quote:

What was difficult about it? I mean, beyond the obvious academic aspects like "everybody hates organic chem."

I went back to a fairly good school at around 35, having dropped out of a very prestigious school at 17 to go to sem & marry a guy in kollel... possibly I was more focused at 35 (yeah, with several kids!) or possibly it just wasn't as tough a program!

Quote:

Specific questions:
- did you/do you have tutors? study partners? were the TAs helpful?

I got some help from people in the frum community. Sometimes I asked for help from classmates. But I was married with several kids and older than them, so it didn't develop into social awkwardness. Although a Pakistani Muslim classmate who was very helpful with computer questions was begging me to come to dinner with my DH & he would have the food "blessed by the Rabbi"!

Quote:

- were the professors helpful?

My advisor & computer professor was very helpful. Though often on my way from the computer lab to his office the problem would solve itself in my head!

Another prof (one of our cousins) had the nerve to tell me that my difficult in understanding the material must be due to my condition (was in my 8th or 9th month). I probably could have sued him!

Quote:

If students said they didn't understand the material, how did the professor react?

I think they were mostly there to help. But I am sure each school is different. And each prof!

Quote:

- were you able to work while studying for your degree?

And run a household? Not likely. But anyhow we lived in a place where I would have made about $5 per hour so it wasn't worth my while to work at that point.

Also I took as many courses as I could handle e.g. six credits in a four week summer semester.

Quote:

- did you know people "like you" (women, religious women, parents, chassidic Jews from North Dakota - whatever "like you" means to you) in your major? or who had completed your program?

Not remembering now... but I attended a Jesuit university & I don't think there were more than 2 other frum people on campus. There was a special office for returning students, though we took classes with the 'youngsters' they were there to help us with getting our old credits recognized etc. [/quote]

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Jun 15 2016, 3:31 pm

ora_43 wrote:

did you/do you have tutors? study partners? were the TAs helpful?

Yup, I had study partners. They were great and instrumental in helping to motivate studying. The TAs were sometimes helpful and sometimes not but this depended on the TA. I used the tutors in the tutoring center when I needed help with specific classes.

ora_43 wrote:

- were the professors helpful? If students said they didn't understand the material, how did the professor react?

Very much a specific class and specific professor question. Some were great, some were annoyed and many had egos that needed stroking.

ora_43 wrote:

- were you able to work while studying for your degree?

Yes, I did work. I worked on campus as an undergraduate TA for my last two years, as an research field assistant for an ecologist during my middle and final year, in a research lab for my last year. In my off times, I worked in a store in the community that could always use some extra help. Yes, I was very busy. But, I loved it.

ora_43 wrote:

- did you know people "like you" (women, religious women, parents, chassidic Jews from North Dakota - whatever "like you" means to you) in your major? or who had completed your program?

Like me as in frum jewish girls. Occasionally, I was in a class with a frum girl. We made quick friends and one of them I am still close to today. Never was a frum girl to complete my specific graduate program in my university. But, other similar programs have had frum girls go through them. Basically, in undergraduate, people wanted to study and work with me because I did well and had a good reputation. I was also always willing to teach or help weaker students and many professors had asked me to help some students.

ora_43 wrote:

- if you considered a STEM major but decided against it, or started a STEM program and then left, what were your reasons for not doing it?

I've only done STEM work and I like it.

Hashem_Yaazor

Wed, Jun 15 2016, 5:57 pm

ora_43 wrote:

My answers will be different because I went to a frum school. I had no study partners which was horrible, I did very poorly for my capabilities because I was the ONLY person majoring in it that year, so I had no one taking all the classes with me, and it was very hard to not have anyone to run my questions by or help me when I got stuck. I didn't have tutors (though I did tutor some maths to other classes, but those were not my challenges.)

Quote:

- were the professors helpful? If students said they didn't understand the material, how did the professor react?

Very, but then again I didn't always know what questions would arise. Benefits of classroom learning involve others questioning things you didn't think of, and gaining from that...but they helped me whenever I did need help, as in reason with their available hours.

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- were you able to work while studying for your degree?

I did a full load in one year (again, Jewish college type of atmosphere, and I had a lot of APs under my belt...e.g. I had credits for Cal I and Cal II which saved me a LOT of time for requisites as well as standard English Lang and Comp and English Lit for general eds)
I did do a work-study program in the night to help with money, but not much.

Quote:

- did you know people "like you" (women, religious women, parents, chassidic Jews from North Dakota - whatever "like you" means to you) in your major? or who had completed your program?

Yes, but again I went to a school where these people also went

amother

Hotpink

Thu, Jun 16 2016, 5:08 am

I did a bio degree for my associated (AS = a 2 year degree) program, and had planed to do the same for my BA (4 year) program, but I switched out of it in the end :-(

I LOVED what I was doing, but the work was time consuming, and missing a lab really wasn't a great option, which meant if something came up with one of the kids I was scrambling to either play catch up or get coverage for them. Any other class I could take the kids along in a pinch - and did at least once or twice every semester! But the school wouldn't allow that for labs as a safety precaution. I understand their concern, and depending on what we were working on I agree with the rule, but it did make things a lot more challenging for me.

I think a lot of times it depends on the teachers as well. I had some really understanding ones, who knew that I was a mom as well as a student, and they tried to be accommodating. One math teacher included my kids by giving them graph paper to write on (he was giving sheets out to the class, so he gave some to the kids too). Another teacher let me take the final exam in her office so that I could have the kids with me without disturbing the other students. Another just smiled at the kids and declared that we had some new students in the class. Yes, for those who are wondering, I always checked with the teacher before bringing the kids in (if I knew in advance, such as if they were off a day for erev a chag). At the very least I asked the teachers at the beginning of the semester what their policies were for bringing kids to class, so that they would be aware that this was a possibility.

Other teachers were less understanding. I dropped the math class that insisted on students being on time for class, or else (sorry, I don't recall anymore what the penalty was for lateness). It was a morning class, so if the school bus came late I was late, so yes, that wouldn't work. The teacher wasn't being unfair, it's just that with my schedule that wasn't going to work for me.

Why did I switch in the end? An instructor had a heart to heart with me and explained that long term what I was doing wasn't going to work, that I couldn't focus this much on the kids and still pull off a science degree. She said that either I had to spend less time on the kids or switch fields. She was nice about it and even offered examples of how some women got sitters and let others really raise the kids so that they could focus on their careers. I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea - she was trying to help me and I think she saw the juggling that I was doing as being unrealistic for the type of coursework that I would be facing in that degree program. Still - ouch. Sigh...there was no way I was going to be able to cut back on the kids enough to make things work and still be ok with it (my husband and I both feel strongly about doing the stay-at-home-mom thing), so I switched to a liberal arts field. It is interesting, though there are days where I miss the science classes. Mind you, there are other days where I'm relieved to have less homework and memorization, so I suppose it balances out.

I guess my advice to you is to take a realistic look at what the schools you are looking at require, and see what you would need to do to make it work. It IS doable, it just wasn't for me given my particular parenting preferences and financial situation (meaning, it wasn't practical to hire a sitter on a regular basis for me to do school work or go to class, though I did on rare occasions).

amother

Babypink

Sat, Jun 18 2016, 1:05 pm

ora_43 wrote:

I'm in Israel! I studied biology. Even did a master's degree. Both degrees were here in Israel. I love biology!! I also wanted to go into medical research because I want to contribute to the world. I also think that biology is super fascinating to learn.

The course load was very very demanding. My roommate was studying something else and she seemed to have a ton of free time and all her homework was reading novels. I spent most of my free time studying or writing lab reports, or doing math/chem/physics/otherthings for homework. So my social life wasn't fantastic during this time period. Exam time was horribly stressful - I sometimes had as many as 13 finals in one semester.

In my master's, I spent all my time in the lab. I had even less time than in my bachelor's. A master's degree in biology is very very demanding, because you are tied to your experiments, which need to be conducted by you and are very time-consuming, and all time-constrained (like checking time points 12 hours apart. Or having to do something in 2 sequential days and missing the second day would ruin the whole thing and you'd have to start over). Also, I still had some classes, and I had to write a thesis at the end. So it was very demanding, but very very interesting.

But I don't regret studying biology at all! I work in it now.

ora_43 wrote:

- did you/do you have tutors? study partners? were the TAs helpful?
- were the professors helpful? If students said they didn't understand the material, how did the professor react?

I didn't have tutors. In fact, I occasionally tutored (not on a regular basis though).
Study partners were ESSENTIAL. The best!
TAs were usually very helpful, except a few who were too busy, grumpy, or inept to help. But most were really helpful.
Professors were kind of a toss up - some helpful, some not. Some would really explain things to me, some would just refer me to specific relevant textbooks in the library and specific chapters (also quite helpful), some would tell me to talk to the TAs because that's what they are there for, and some were too distant for one reason or another to even approach (personality, too busy, non-existent people skills, only around at hours when I had other classes, etc.).

ora_43 wrote:

- were you able to work while studying for your degree?

No. Literally no time. Since I made aliyah though, my tuition was free, and the money my parents saved for me for tuition in the USA went to rent and utilities (thanks Mom and Dad!). My own savings covered the rest. An undergrad degree here is only 3 years, not 4, so that helped too. During my master's, I had a fellowship which covered my tuition and provided a stipend - perk of doing advanced degrees in STEM in Israel (not common in other fields).

ora_43 wrote:

- did you know people "like you" (women, religious women, parents, chassidic Jews from North Dakota - whatever "like you" means to you) in your major? or who had completed your program?

I made aliyah from the USA. There were other religious Americans/Canadians in my program (men and women). There were also religious Israelis. I tended to study more with those groups, but not only them. Before I started, I knew of one religious British girl who was near the end of her degree. I may have called her to ask questions, but honestly can't remember.