Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children
In need of parenting help
1  2  Next



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Sun, Jun 19 2016, 11:46 pm
Ive just had the most horrible night with my DS 10. He was never an easy child and always required all of my energy, but lately it seemed to get better.

After my kids had supper, I asked him to play with his younger sister. He enjoys teaching her ABC and she also likes the attention. After about a 1/2 hour I told them that its time to get into baths. Younger daughter had her teachers wedding to go to, and everyone else was super tired after a late Motsei Shabbos. DS 10 had a complete meltdown. He opened his mouth wide and began yelling. I told him to be quiet and got the other kids in and out of baths. While supervising baths DS 10 was just trying to get a reaction from me, but I completely ignored him.
I put the other kids to bed and every couple minutes reminded him to get into the shower, but he continued yelling. After everyone else was in bed he started bothering his siblings. Knock on their door, throw stuff, but I just ignored him. I moved all the kids to one room and closed that door. Still didnt help. So I put them all into my room and told him he must stay in the hallway quietly or get into bed himself. He just escalated the situation. He began to bang on the door and kick it until I told him " either your quiet or I put you on the porch". Sure enough 2 seconds later, hes back to kicking. So I lead him to the porch and lock the door behind him. I left him there for about 40 minutes to cool down. (To all who will call me abusive, it was not dark outside and there are large windows and I made sure to stay in his sight.) He was never punished for such a long time and I thought this should do the trick. It didnt.

When he came in I gently told him to go into bed but he missed out on our story time. So he began a tantrum about that. At that point all the other kids were sleeping so I told him to go to bed and I locked myself in my room. He parked himself outside my door and pestered me every few minutes . He wanted me to either put him to sleep or allow him to sleep with his brother. This is how every consequence ends. He always wants a concession after being punished. This time I held my ground, and just repeated myself "No, you must go to sleep in your own bed". This went on for about 1.5 hours until I called my Dh home for reinforcements.

My DH gave him 5 minutes to get into bed or lose his pillow for the night. Predictably,DS ignored him so DH took away his pillow. Now Ds was upset so he woke up 2 of his siblings. This was my last straw so I took him by the hand, led him into bed and gave him 2 hard smacks. He erupted in a yell and scream and locked himself in the bathroom where he could yell "youre crazy..."

The night ended with me explaing to him that if I give him back his pillow hell just learn to ignore me. And if I hold my ground he will learn that ignoring your parents leads to XYZ. He accepted it and told me to make him a timer and hell get himself into bed.

I feel horrible about tonight and you all probably think either my son is crazy or I am. I feel like he is always shlepping me into a power struggle. As much as I ignore, eventually Im sucked in.

Im keeping him home tomorrow, although he has a test scheduled. Ill bring him along to work but Im not sure how to handle him. Should I ignore him after all this rotten behaviour or shower him with atention?
Back to top

amother
Navy


 

Post Sun, Jun 19 2016, 11:56 pm
Why would you keep him home from school. Esp. if he is going to miss a test.
Back to top

deams




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 12:06 am
I feel for you. I have a tough time with my 7 year old and I go through similar situations. I don't know if some sort of chart would help. Compliment him when he does good. I find when my son has a hard day in school (especially socially) then he is lashing out on me and his siblings. I try right away with extra hugs and anything else that would make him feel loved. I just don't understand why you are keeping him home from school?
Back to top

chavs




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 6:11 am
I'm sorry you had a rough time. It sounds like he did as well.
I am not understanding how ignoring him or taking away his things or putting him on the porch is meant to help. I can only see that escalating the situation.
I would love to give you advice but it doesn't sound like you need advice on only this situation. I'd suggest that you start of with getting on your son's side and when he behaves difficultly look at him as struggling and ask yourself how you can help him to start with. Secondly I'd suggest a parenting course such as power to parent by Gordon Neufeld, you can order the dvds online if you aren't near to anywhere giving the course. They aren't cheap but well worth it.
Otherwise I'd at the very least suggest to read how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk.
Back to top

amother
Ecru


 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 7:08 am
Read The Explosive Child and the Whole Brain Child

From experience, if I see my child might get beyond the point of no return, I don't enforce whatever it is. He's incapable of listening when he is in that mode. Nothing is that important.
Back to top

amother
Sienna


 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 7:22 am
amother wrote:
Ive just had the most horrible night with my DS 10. He was never an easy child and always required all of my energy, but lately it seemed to get better.

After my kids had supper, I asked him to play with his younger sister. He enjoys teaching her ABC and she also likes the attention. After about a 1/2 hour I told them that its time to get into baths. Younger daughter had her teachers wedding to go to, and everyone else was super tired after a late Motsei Shabbos. DS 10 had a complete meltdown. He opened his mouth wide and began yelling. I told him to be quiet and got the other kids in and out of baths. While supervising baths DS 10 was just trying to get a reaction from me, but I completely ignored him.
I put the other kids to bed and every couple minutes reminded him to get into the shower, but he continued yelling. After everyone else was in bed he started bothering his siblings. Knock on their door, throw stuff, but I just ignored him. I moved all the kids to one room and closed that door. Still didnt help. So I put them all into my room and told him he must stay in the hallway quietly or get into bed himself. He just escalated the situation. He began to bang on the door and kick it until I told him " either your quiet or I put you on the porch". Sure enough 2 seconds later, hes back to kicking. So I lead him to the porch and lock the door behind him. I left him there for about 40 minutes to cool down. (To all who will call me abusive, it was not dark outside and there are large windows and I made sure to stay in his sight.) He was never punished for such a long time and I thought this should do the trick. It didnt.

When he came in I gently told him to go into bed but he missed out on our story time. So he began a tantrum about that. At that point all the other kids were sleeping so I told him to go to bed and I locked myself in my room. He parked himself outside my door and pestered me every few minutes . He wanted me to either put him to sleep or allow him to sleep with his brother. This is how every consequence ends. He always wants a concession after being punished. This time I held my ground, and just repeated myself "No, you must go to sleep in your own bed". This went on for about 1.5 hours until I called my Dh home for reinforcements.

My DH gave him 5 minutes to get into bed or lose his pillow for the night. Predictably,DS ignored him so DH took away his pillow. Now Ds was upset so he woke up 2 of his siblings. This was my last straw so I took him by the hand, led him into bed and gave him 2 hard smacks. He erupted in a yell and scream and locked himself in the bathroom where he could yell "youre crazy..."

The night ended with me explaing to him that if I give him back his pillow hell just learn to ignore me. And if I hold my ground he will learn that ignoring your parents leads to XYZ. He accepted it and told me to make him a timer and hell get himself into bed.

I feel horrible about tonight and you all probably think either my son is crazy or I am. I feel like he is always shlepping me into a power struggle. As much as I ignore, eventually Im sucked in.

Im keeping him home tomorrow, although he has a test scheduled. Ill bring him along to work but Im not sure how to handle him. Should I ignore him after all this rotten behaviour or shower him with atention?

I too have had children who completed confounded and frustrated me and didn't respond to conventional parenting techniques. I can relate to all the feelings of frustration, anger at the child, anger at myself and despair. My oldest is an adult and having learned a lot along the way, from my failures and my successes, I now provide support and guidance as a consultant to parents who are now in the same situation I was in. If you ask me, what parents need most is compassion, understanding and support. Once they have that, they can begin to offer it to their children.

With children who are chronically challenging, even though it sometimes looks random, there is often a pattern to their uncooperative or explosive behavior and if you think about similar explosions, you can often find a pattern of specific triggers that you can identify and then do something about through prevention as well as teaching the thinking skills they need to manage their emotions and behavior through a difficult or upsetting situation without upsetting everyone else.

Let's unpack the event from the beginning, without judgment. You mention that your son was in the middle of an activity he was enjoying, and then it was time for him to go to bed when he exploded. Would you say either one of these things is frequently a trigger for an explosion? Does he hate to be told he has to stop something he's in the middle of and enjoying? Does he frequently act up at bedtime? Could there have been something about his younger sister staying up to go to a teacher's wedding while he had to go to bed on time that set him off? Think about other times he has behaved similarly. Can you think of any similarities to the current situation? Was there anything else going on at that time that could have been a trigger for your son's reaction? Have you asked him and if so what did he say?
Back to top

mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 8:50 am
I suggest you a) get used to giving your son five minute warnings before his activity of choice ends. it sounds like he doesn't handle sudden changes in his own plans. b) don't move all the kids into one room as a result of his misbehavior. you are pretty much allowing your son to run the household by doing that. if he is the one misbehaving, HE should be removed from the situation, not the other kids. as soon as he starts misbehaving, warn him that continuing the behavior will earn him a ten-minute time out. then follow through. time out should not be out of the house, just in a designated spot that is out of the way. every time he gets out before time out is up, start all over again. he has to sit the whole ten minutes. c) you had him outside for forty minutes as punishment. he had no control over the length of the punishment, you locked the door. then you took away his story time. don't pile punishments on top of punishments. forty minutes is way more than needed, continuing to take things away (story, pillow) is unnecessary and possibly cruel. if you hold his behavior over him all night, he won't have any reason to stop the behavior. give him a ten minute punishment (which may involve a longer time period if he resists) and as soon as he's done his sitting, have him apologize. then move on with your evening. a bedtime story takes 2-5 minutes, give it to him. a pillow helps him sleep well, which will help him behave better tomorrow. locking yourself in your room to avoid him teaches him that you just can't deal with him and don't want to try. keep your evening routine the same, calmly punish when needed, move on with life, and allow him and yourself a normal evening. and DEFINITELY give him that warning before he has to stop something he enjoys.

for what it's worth, your son sounds somewhat like mine, and we have found the five minute warning works wonders. we haven't had to give time outs since we started making ourselves aware of his likely reaction to things. giving him that warning allows him time to process the change in plans. sit down with your son when he's calm and discuss changes with him, even small changes like transitioning from play time to shower time. find out how he feels when you suddenly end his activity and switch to something you feel necessary. come up with a plan together to make things easier for him. five minute warnings can help, as can a secret password to let him know that he can return to his activity once he finishes whatever you need him to do. you can always just tell him that when asking him to stop what he's doing, but secret passwords may make it more fun and less stressful for him. find ways to reward him for following instructions, even when it's hard for him.
Back to top

amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 9:04 am
UPDATE: He wanted to go to school because he had made up to meet a friend, so that was that.

Thank you for all replies. I usually do give my kids 10 min warning before we switch activities, but this time I was tired and feeling cranky myself and wanted to get on with things. He erupted with a screech and yell and it all downward from there. I feel like this is a product of my 21 century parenting. If once, he doesnt get a fair warning about a change he has the right to yell and tantrum. My parents barked orders left and right, smacked us until we listened, and you better believe it we listened. And wonders of all, I am not mad at them and have a great relationship with them.

For the future I do need tips how to remove the power struggle between us. Giving him time out in a room wont help because he will either leave the room and bother his siblings to get a reaction from me, or throw things around in the room.
Back to top

mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 9:11 am
amother wrote:
UPDATE: He wanted to go to school because he had made up to meet a friend, so that was that.

Thank you for all replies. I usually do give my kids 10 min warning before we switch activities, but this time I was tired and feeling cranky myself and wanted to get on with things. He erupted with a screech and yell and it all downward from there. I feel like this is a product of my 21 century parenting. If once, he doesnt get a fair warning about a change he has the right to yell and tantrum. My parents barked orders left and right, smacked us until we listened, and you better believe it we listened. And wonders of all, I am not mad at them and have a great relationship with them.

For the future I do need tips how to remove the power struggle between us. Giving him time out in a room wont help because he will either leave the room and bother his siblings to get a reaction from me, or throw things around in the room.


not giving him warning does not give him the right to tantrum, it just makes it more likely. kids who have a hard time transitioning will protest, and smacking likely will not change their behavior. your son is not you or your siblings.

as for the time out, yes, he will leave the room. you lead him back to it, repeatedly and calmly, until he sits for ten minutes. a few time outs later, he'll be sitting for the whole thing without argument. don't give up before he does, you have to outlast him. as for throwing things, so what? as long as no one is within firing range, don't bother him about that. have him sit for ten minutes, then he has to pick up what he threw before moving on to anything he wants to do. keep a straight face or he'll work harder to get a reaction from you. you need to learn to keep a poker face on. the power struggle happens because you're willing to engage in it. he wouldn't think he could take the power away from you if you didn't allow it, which you definitely did in your original post. if you take away your part, the rest really should dissipate.
Back to top

Mama Bear




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 9:16 am
Oh honey. I've been there, doing that. My son who is around that age also has tantrums and things can escalate to a point where you can't stop it. You might not like to hear this but piling punishment upon punishment when such a thing happens, is counterproductive. At such a time the best thing to do is stop what you'ure doing and sit down and find out what's going on and why he's behaving this way. A better way to stop all these misbehaviors is *not* to put endless consequences on him because the more you're piling on the more resentful and angry and out of control he gets. Instead, to distract him with somethign calming - a storytape, a snack, whatever can calm him. He was obviously in a crazy state of mind and couldn't regulate himself or even figure out how to stop h is downward spiral. I learned through years of going th rough this kind of frustration that for some children, normal parenting does nto work and is even counterproductive. The Explosive Child opened my eyes wide and made me pump my fist in the air yelling, YES! SOMEONE FINALLY UNDERSTANDS WHAT I'M GOING THROUGH! and use other techniques to gt through to him.

.Good luck and hugs. it's very hard.
Back to top

amother
Gray


 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 9:23 am
it goes against common parenting advice but in this situation with a similar kid of mine, I would have lessened the punishment after giving it.

Quote:
This is how every consequence ends. He always wants a concession after being punished. This time I held my ground,


If you had ignored all the parenting books and listened to your gut, would you have chosen to give in on the severity of the punishment, and subsequently had an easier night?

Since I already know that 1 child of mine needs to feel like she got a concession after being punished, I purposely leave room for concessions after declaring a punishment. she is so happy to have gotten a concession that she doesnt protest the punishment itself, and things run more smoothly.
Back to top

observer




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 10:12 am
Another point to add to what previous posters said: When you locked yourself in your room and he kept trying to bargain with you, I would have just ignored him. You were in your room, he knew what he was supposed to be doing, end of story.
Back to top

amother
Honeydew


 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 10:29 am
My kid is precisely like that!

Op, please read the book 123 magic! It's not magic, but it empowers the parent so much!
It changed my life by teaching me how to avoid power struggle, and not to go crazy from his behaviors.

I used to have adult tantrums all the time with him, ( that's what they are, let's not kid ourselves! ), and couldn't sleep all nought. now I mostly avoid them very calmly.
Back to top

amother
Smokey


 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 10:53 am
Sorry for going amother. Does he have problematic behavior only in the home or also at school? If it is a home problem only, environment could be the issue. If issues manifest everywhere, you need to bring on medical help.

Your son sounds a lot like my son and I'd really recommend getting him to a psychologist for a diagnosis, followed by a psychiatrist if conventional therapy can't close the loop enough for your family to function. 1, 2, and even 3 hour tempter tantrums were a nightly event for us for a while. We put our child outside on the porch regularly at one point because he was just intolerable. It was miserable time for everyone and just continued to escalate physically. My son was already diagnosed with ADD, ODD, and different books about ADD and ADHD were helpful in understanding my child more and his challenges and adjusting our environment. The anxiety disorder was the thing that pushed our situation into desperate and needing intervention. It sounds like you are a bit behind if your son is 10. But know there is relief. Goodluck.
Back to top

amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 11:03 am
observer wrote:
Another point to add to what previous posters said: When you locked yourself in your room and he kept trying to bargain with you, I would have just ignored him. You were in your room, he knew what he was supposed to be doing, end of story.


That's exactly what I did for 1.5 hours. Just calmly repeated myself "please go to your room and go to sleep". But he wanted a concession from me. Either let me sleep with my brother or read to me. Missing his story was a natural consequence because he was busy yelling while I read to everyone.
Back to top

amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 11:10 am
amother wrote:
Sorry for going amother. Does he have problematic behavior only in the home or also at school? If it is a home problem only, environment could be the issue. If issues manifest everywhere, you need to bring on medical help.

Your son sounds a lot like my son and I'd really recommend getting him to a psychologist for a diagnosis, followed by a psychiatrist if conventional therapy can't close the loop enough for your family to function. 1, 2, and even 3 hour tempter tantrums were a nightly event for us for a while. We put our child outside on the porch regularly at one point because he was just intolerable. It was miserable time for everyone and just continued to escalate physically. My son was already diagnosed with ADD, ODD, and different books about ADD and ADHD were helpful in understanding my child more and his challenges and adjusting our environment. The anxiety disorder was the thing that pushed our situation into desperate and needing intervention. It sounds like you are a bit behind if your son is 10. But know there is relief. Goodluck.


We did have him tested by a child behavior psychologist when he was 7. He doesn't have add or anything like that. He does struggle with language and that affects his schoolwork. His tantrums were more frequent but he has made so much progress.

I will read all book recommendations in a effort to help myself.
Back to top

myym




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 11:31 am
Setting Limits by Robert mackenzie . Its on Amazon. Great resource on parenting.
Provides a clear way to implement rewards and consequences (not punishments.) I also feel you did too many punishments, and certainly your husband taking away the pillow was uncalled for.
My husband in the past would have done almost such a thing too, until someone enlightened him (by chance, without knowing anything about our child) that in order to keep your son close to you in the future, its going to need to be through love and understanding.
I have a son that used to behave like your son. The only way to stop the cycle in such an instance like the situation you gave, is to understand him. Take a step back. Forget about punishments. When all your other kids were settled in bed, and your other son was screaming I would go over and gently ask him what is bothering him?
Sometimes you need to let go of the small or even large misbehavior to get to the bigger picture.
Back to top

amother
Bisque


 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 11:45 am
Also have an explosive 7 yr old dd. There's only a certain extent u can keep calm. Even after ignoring and everything. Especially when I'm tired and hungry. Started therapy for her. Don't c major difference. They teach how to breath or drink to keep calm but when she's angry she doesn't wana use those techniques. When she's hungry and tiredthe tantrums are worse. Problem is dh handles these things even less than I do. I totally understand u op.
Back to top

observer




 
 
    
 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 11:57 am
amother wrote:
That's exactly what I did for 1.5 hours. Just calmly repeated myself "please go to your room and go to sleep". But he wanted a concession from me. Either let me sleep with my brother or read to me. Missing his story was a natural consequence because he was busy yelling while I read to everyone.


Ignore means just that, ignore. Without constantly repeating yourself. He knew what you wanted him to do.

[I know it's easier said than done.]
Back to top

amother
Wheat


 

Post Mon, Jun 20 2016, 2:36 pm
myym wrote:
Setting Limits by Robert mackenzie . Its on Amazon. Great resource on parenting.
Provides a clear way to implement rewards and consequences (not punishments.) I also feel you did too many punishments, and certainly your husband taking away the pillow was uncalled for.
My husband in the past would have done almost such a thing too, until someone enlightened him (by chance, without knowing anything about our child) that in order to keep your son close to you in the future, its going to need to be through love and understanding.
I have a son that used to behave like your son. The only way to stop the cycle in such an instance like the situation you gave, is to understand him. Take a step back. Forget about punishments. When all your other kids were settled in bed, and your other son was screaming I would go over and gently ask him what is bothering him?
Sometimes you need to let go of the small or even large misbehavior to get to the bigger picture.



Yes I agree I found it easier to implement than the other books suggested upthread.
https://www.amazon.com/Setting.....child
Back to top
Page 1 of 2 1  2  Next Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Parenting our children -> School age children

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Parenting questions
by amother
4 Tue, Mar 26 2024, 8:29 am View last post
Help with parenting
by amother
10 Sun, Mar 17 2024, 10:11 am View last post
Parenting course for ADHD
by amother
5 Thu, Mar 14 2024, 3:04 am View last post
Mushka gopin parenting course
by amother
4 Sun, Mar 10 2024, 11:25 pm View last post
IMPACT Parenting Summit
by amother
0 Sun, Mar 10 2024, 11:29 am View last post