UK Imamothers: explain Brexit please

amother

Copper

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 9:14 am

Anon because I'm embarrassed at how underinformed I am

Could someone please enlighten me with a quick summary of the Brexit issue? I mean, I know there's a vote this week on whether or not to stay in the EU, and I understand it's quite a contentious issue. What are the pros and cons on each side? And where do you stand on the issue?
Thank you,
I promise I'm not that dumb of an American

amother

Linen

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 9:25 am

The pros are that we won't have all these immigrants ( Muslims Arabs Polish etc )
Being able to just come and live here
Cons especially for us jewish people is that anyone with a eu passport basically citizenship in anyany of the eu countries could come live here in Britain and receive all the benefits
if they exit they won't be able

DrMom

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 9:33 am

Disclaimer: I'm not British.

Here are commentaries by one of my favorite authors, Douglas Murray, on the topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0yDESrt4oE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyUB1f3NiEE

His emphasis is more on immigration issues, as opposed to economic issues.

amother

Mistyrose

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 9:36 am

It's pretty simple
the UK pay hundreds of millions of pounds into what is called a "black hole of Europe" so that we could be part of the EU. The EU have the power to overrule individual governments so even if you vote in your party to lead, it doesn't mean you get what you've asked for.

If we stay part of the EU, anyone who migrates into any part of Europe has easier access into Britain. It also means that some pompous asses in Brussels get to decide things like paying taxes etc in Britain. It is the biggest money making scheme in the world. The Brussels offices move once a month for 4 days to a location at the other end of Europe for a meeting. It costs millions of pounds and the huge compound where the meetings happen remain empty the rest of the year. That's just one example of where our taxes go in the black hole of Europe.

Staying in Europe also means that the EU could add any country to the EU at any time. So now Turkey is on the list which will mean an influx of Turkish terrorists to our shores. If a country does poorly, we have to bail them out too which is more of our tax money. The EU are desperate for Britain to remain as the British economy is one of the main structures of support to them. If we leave they may fall apart.

Now leaving the EU: there is risk that businesses may suffer financially eg. With the EU it's easier to negotiate imports and exports from China etc. Also it's easier to sell and buy your products abroad but there is of course a way around that (ask amazon and Google how to evade taxes).

Many countries want Britain to remain as they have easier access here and it's easier for them to control what this country does and influence our policies. The EU have spent now multi millions of pounds on propaganda putting the fear of Gd into the nation warning of huge debt if we were to leave and even the possibility of world war 3 if Britain decides to get out!!! They have advertised all over the country and even paid millions of pounds to the current government to support the remain side. I receive leaflets in my door almost daily now Smile

For the Jewish community, the trouble is with people marrying from Israel, USA etc it won't be so easy to aquire citizenship. So many couples will be forced to prove that they have enough money to support a spouse, rather than doing what they are now which is bringing in foreign spouses and then claiming benefits off the government.

You can bet your dollar I'll be voting to get the hell out if this corrupt system which is Europe. So I'll have to wait a little longer when crossing borders... hope this helps enlighten you on the issue.

#BREXIT

amother

Copper

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 9:54 am

Thank you, Mistyrose. I had a feeling Brexit was a good idea simply because Obama is against it and also because I'm not too keen on the EU in general, but wanted a run down on the issues, especially the economic ones (I am aware of the immigration issues in Europe in general, which make ours look like a cakewalk). But like I said, I didn't really know or understand all the factors going on, so I appreciate hearing a thorough run down.

LikeMeDoes

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 11:02 am

Copper and anyone else, you do realise that, although the above post is well articulated, it's obviously biased in a specific direction.
I don't know enough to do justice to the other side but you may want to find out more.

amother

Copper

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 11:11 am

I understand it's biased, but she did explain issues I was unaware of. Obviously there are good reasons not to leave, otherwise it wouldn't be such a contentious issue. If anyone here would like to explain why those factors really favor staying, I'd be interested to hear. For example, how much would small businesses be hurt by this? Thats an important concern.

Hatemywig

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 11:31 am

To be or not to be...in Europe

The so-called Brexit referendum—the coming question of whether Britons will vote to leave the European Union—could not be coming at a worse time for the E.U. Brexit could deal the wobbly European project a devastating blow; but keeping the U.K. in at all costs could be just as dangerous. These five facts explain why avoiding Brexit may be the EU’s most complicated challenge yet.

1. Who Wants What

As he promised British voters he would, U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron hammered out a provisional deal with the E.U. earlier this week on new terms for Britain’s future in the union. At issue is that the U.K., which is not a member of the Euro area and doesn’t use the euro currency, doesn’t want to contribute to future Eurozone bailouts. It wants a veto over E.U. legislation that Britons don’t like and to curb migration by deferring in-work benefits for non-U.K. citizens working in the country. Progress is being made on all these fronts.

For its part, the E.U. wants to keep the U.K. in the E.U. but avoid setting a dangerous precedent that encourages the other 27 governments to demand their own deals.

2. Economic Impact on the U.K.

Campaigning has already begun in the U.K.. “Out” supporters argue that the U.K. is better off economically if it leaves the E.U.; “In” supporters maintain that leaving the Union would seriously undermine the British economy by forcing London to renegotiate its trade and investment relationships with E.U. members. The think tank Open Europe projected last March that a worst-case Brexit scenario would cost the U.K. 2.2 percent of GDP by 2030; best-case scenario is that GDP would rise 1.6 percent over the same period.

Plenty of other think tanks and lobbies have done their own calculations, and each group cites whatever numbers bolster its argument. But there’s no precedent for a country leaving the E.U., so no one really knows what the morning after—and the year after—will look like. Britons are like one half of a bad marriage, pondering a divorce. Are they unhappy enough with the way things are to gamble on the unknown? Accept those ills they have? Or fly to others they know not of?

3. Economic Impact on the E.U.

Calculating the economic costs of Brexit on the E.U. is a bit easier. The U.K. currently contributes 5.8 percent of the E.U.’s operating budget, second only to Germany, and accounts for one-third of all foreign direct investment into the E.U. If the E.U. loses the U.K., it loses 15 percent of its GDP. Then there are the demographic concerns. Nearly 2 million people from other E.U. countries are currently working in the U.K. It’s still not clear what happens to them if the U.K. decides to leave. The problem goes both ways—1.26 million U.K. citizens are currently spread throughout the rest of the E.U. So there are plenty of reasons why the E.U. wants to keep the U.K. in the fold. But Brussels also knows that bending too much may bring its own “sea of troubles.”

4. Impact on E.U. Politics

Poland is the only country to have publicly voiced concern over the provisional draft this week. Some 700,000 Poles now live in the U.K.—the highest share of foreign citizens living in the country—and Warsaw is worried that suspending in-work benefits to non-U.K. workers will hurt Poland disproportionately. Poland will meet with fellow Eastern European countries ahead of an E.U. summit later this month to try to coordinate responses to any Brexit proposals.

There are other political concerns at play, as well. The U.K. has traditionally served as a counterbalance to France in policy debates, with Germany playing the role of conciliatory broker. If the U.K. leaves, Berlin will sometimes have to take on a more directly adversarial role toward Paris. If you thought frustrations with Germany were running high over the refugee crisis, just wait.

So Brussels must be careful. If it gives the U.K. too good a deal, it risks creating an uproar among Eastern European countries. But it must give enough to help Cameron win his referendum and avoid Brexit, or else risk upending the already fragile political dynamics of the E.U. And it needs to make sure these negotiations don’t set a dangerous precedent for others to try the same.

5. British Public Opinion

And what about the British public? Right after the U.K. held parliamentary elections in May, an ORB poll found that 55 percent of Britons wanted to stay in the E.U., while 45 percent would opt to leave. Those numbers remained relatively stable throughout the summer. But as the refugee crisis reached fever pitch in October, E.U. support inside the U.K. began to dip; 53 percent said they favored staying while 47 percent said they wanted out. Then came the terrorist attacks on Paris. In their wake, 52 percent of Britons said they wanted to leave the E.U. while 48 percent said they wanted to stay. An ORB poll last month showed that those numbers had flipped again, with 52 percent opting to stay and 48 percent in favor of Brexit.

Clearly, Britons haven’t yet made up their minds. Cameron has signaled that he wants to hold the referendum by June. It remains to be seen if that’s politically possible. But the longer he waits, the greater the risk for Cameron that some unforeseen event will push Britain into undiscovered country.

http://time.com/4207785/these-.....exit/

Hatemywig

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 11:35 am

Brexit for dummies

What is Brexit? The term Brexit was coined in 2012 to symbolize the exit of Britain from the 28-nation European Union. The term was formed by using a few alphabets from the phrase Briton exiting the EU.

Why is the term in vogue now? A referendum will be held in the UK next week (23 June) to determine whether the UK citizen would like their country to exit the EU or to stay put. All UK citizens are expected to answer a question "Should the United ..

What are the arguments against Brexit? The 'no' campaigners argue that being a part of the EU makes trade with the bloc's countries easier. They also claim that an exit would dent business growth and Britain's status would be at stake. Several global financial experts believe the UK may lose its importance as a financial hub as companies will be compelled to choose another trading partner to access the EU.

How will the voting be done? UK citizens will answer the question "should the UK remain a member of the EU or leave the EU? in a yes or no vote on June 23 to decide Britain's fate.

Who can vote in the referendum? Every British, Irish or Commonwealth citizen above 18 years residing in Britain can vote. British nationals who have lived overseas for less than 15 years can also vote. Members of the House of Lords and Commonwealth citizens in Gibraltar ..

http://economictimes.indiatime.....8.cms

Hatemywig

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 11:38 am

There are some financial concerns and mainly the fear of the unknown, if GB were to leave the EU. As of now, although there is no way to know which way this will go, the fear mongering - against leaving is at an all high!

Fox

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 11:59 am

Do you think that the Islamic immigration issue is a significant factor, particularly for Jewish voters -- or am I reading too much Milo Yiannopoulos these days?

sequoia

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 12:06 pm

There's a reason he's here, no one wants him there. I wouldn't listen to a word he says.

Fox

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 12:11 pm

sequoia wrote:

There's a reason he's here, no one wants him there. I wouldn't listen to a word he says.

Oh, c'mon! You gotta love Milo, even when he's obnoxious! The sheer entertainment value of seeing what color his hair is from day to day is enough of a reason.

amother

Taupe

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 12:19 pm

Currently the EU share intelligence in regards to terrorism, if I understood correctly there will be no sharing of information with the UK if it exits the EU.

The main large disadvantage (of exit) to the Jewish community is the difficulty in obtaining a [spouse] visa. It is currently nearly impossible under the current British law for a British national to bring in an international spouse without having very significant funds in ones own name. EU law is much easier in this respect and most people have thus been able to get their spouse to enter the country under EU law.

If Britain leaves the EU it will be nearly impossible for British citizens to marry a non-British person with the intention of living in Britain unless they are very wealthy. That's major.

Raisin

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 12:25 pm

Alas, I am unable to vote, since I have lived out of the UK just a little too long. I would probably vote to remain. On the whole, while I am sure the EU has some downsides, Europe been relatively peaceful. That's pretty good. Also, while Britain can leave, the EU will still exist and it will have no impact on what goes on inside it as it does now.

I'm not exactly sure why immigration plays a role here. It is extremely difficult right now to immigrate to the UK, unless you are from an EU country. (even if you are married to a british citizen) And I am not sure how the UK could manage without the polish and other eastern european workers, who often return to Poland in any case after a few years. (which means the UK doesn't have to pay for healthcare etc for them) Refugees will still be able to claim refugee status afaik.

The bulk of the Pakistani Muslim population came to the UK many many years ago, before Britain joined the EU, and were encouraged to come due to labour shortages.

So the only immigrants who will be impacted are those from other EU countries. Mostly extremely hard working Eastern Europeans as well as many Germans, French, Spanish, etc. Some of them may be Islamic but right now I think its Catholic churches that

I don't think its just me who is turned off the Brexit campaign when it's supporters feel the need to resort to murdering MPs.

Raisin

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 12:28 pm

amother wrote:

This is correct. I think the only way one can get around the restrictions is by the couple living in another EU country and then you can enter the UK.

But I was informed that Rabbonim are supporting Brexit. Why?

amother

Copper

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 12:32 pm

Thanks for all the replies, especially Hatemywig. An MP was assassinated over this? I knew it was a contentious issue, but wow... It seems to me that the immigration factors would favor leaving, but the economic factors are more of a question mark and comes with some risks, but there's know way to know what the impact will look like.

Hatemywig

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 12:39 pm

It is important to differentiate between immigrants and refugees. While you may ask what is the difference? In this case, when I wrote immigrants, I am referring to people who apply for citizenship through a spouse or work visa as opposed to people who are coming under refugee status I.e.: Syrian Refugees who expect to receive full benefits.

GB has more than enough home-grown welfare addicts, do they really need to bring in a few hundred thousand more?

DrMom

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 2:07 pm

Fox wrote:

Do you think that the Islamic immigration issue is a significant factor, particularly for Jewish voters -- or am I reading too much Milo Yiannopoulos these days?

I find him to be a fascinating person. Definitely not easy to pigeonhole. I think he's spot on w.r.t the Brexit/immigration issue.

Raisin

Mon, Jun 20 2016, 2:11 pm

Hatemywig wrote:

As I said, Brexit will not effect these two groups. (if it will, I am not sure how) It will only have an impact on EU immigrants, who right now can come and work and claim benefits freely. (and vice versa)