Home
Log in / Sign Up
    Private Messages   Advanced Search   Rules   New User Guide   FAQ   Advertise   Contact Us  
Forum -> Interesting Discussions
Goodbye Mikvah lady
Previous  1  2



Post new topic   Reply to topic View latest: 24h 48h 72h

ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2016, 2:26 am
I've also never had a bad mikva experience here in Israel. I'm not denying bad experiences happen, just want to present the other side in defense of the many Israeli mikva ladies who are lovely people and do their best to respect women's privacy.

I've never been bothered by having someone there while I'm in the mikva, but I think I'm unusually blase about it. I think it's great that women for whom it's seriously upsetting will have other options now.
Back to top

amother
Khaki


 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2016, 3:00 am
iv'e also never had a bad experiance in Israel, and I've been to around ten mikvas in sevral cities.

the ML I have now is the sweetest one on earth. we all joke in the park that the only highlight of being nida is to get to meet her once a month! She just gives you the nicest feeling that lasts a night through.
Back to top

chavamom




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2016, 4:26 am
A mikvah lady that screamed at me because I turned on (cold) water on shabbos at the mikvah, one that started cutting my nails to the quick without asking because she thought they weren't short enough, one that attacked my navel with a Q-tip....I can keep going.
Back to top

notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2016, 8:02 am
shabbatiscoming wrote:
Im just wondering, for all you ladies who said you had awful experiences in israel in the mikvaot, what were those experiences? Ive been going to mikvaot here in Israel for the last 11 years and never had a bad experience, even in mikvaot where they check you and even sit there and scrape off your dead skin (no choice thats the way it was done) I never had a mean balanit and never a bad mikvah experience here in Israel.


I have had mikva ladies insist something is a chatzizah even when my rav had told me it's ok and forced me to remove something that will cause a lot of pain/ discomfort.
I have had mikva ladies cause me ingrown toe nails several times because they say I don't cut my big nail short enough (I am very prone to ingrown toe nails so I specifically cut that tail short but not too the edge).
I have had them make comments on my hair being too long or that I didn't prepare well.
Personally, I find them scraping off my dead skin too be gross and I don't appreciate it, especially if I have already done most of it and it's not a halachic problem.
I could go on and on, but I think everyone should be required to have someone watch the tevilah but bringing in your own person is a great idea.
Back to top

amother
Ivory


 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2016, 12:22 pm
notshanarishona wrote:
I have had mikva ladies insist something is a chatzizah even when my rav had told me it's ok and forced me to remove something that will cause a lot of pain/ discomfort.
I have had mikva ladies cause me ingrown toe nails several times because they say I don't cut my big nail short enough (I am very prone to ingrown toe nails so I specifically cut that tail short but not too the edge).
I have had them make comments on my hair being too long or that I didn't prepare well.
Personally, I find them scraping off my dead skin too be gross and I don't appreciate it, especially if I have already done most of it and it's not a halachic problem.
I could go on and on, but I think everyone should be required to have someone watch the tevilah but bringing in your own person is a great idea.

Well it's your fault that you allow them to torture and disrespect you like that.
I learned allot in the two decades + of marriage.
I learned to stand up for myself and refuse anything and everything I don't want touched.
I learned the names of specific 2 ML's that are most respectful and always request for either of them. Sometimes the wait might be longer because of that but it's all worth it for me.

No one ML should have the authority nor audacity to accommodate a client without her full consent of the treatment.
Back to top

ora_43




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2016, 12:51 pm
amother wrote:
Well it's your fault that you allow them to torture and disrespect you like that.
I learned allot in the two decades + of marriage.
I learned to stand up for myself and refuse anything and everything I don't want touched.

"It's your fault" is pretty harsh, amother. Maybe she just hasn't had two decades of marriage to develop the confidence to tell people to back the **** off.

And either way, the mikva lady's bad behavior would still be on the mikva lady.
Back to top

amother
Tan


 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2016, 1:45 pm
notshanarishona wrote:
I have had mikva ladies insist something is a chatzizah even when my rav had told me it's ok and forced me to remove something that will cause a lot of pain/ discomfort.
I have had mikva ladies cause me ingrown toe nails several times because they say I don't cut my big nail short enough (I am very prone to ingrown toe nails so I specifically cut that tail short but not too the edge).
I have had them make comments on my hair being too long or that I didn't prepare well.
Personally, I find them scraping off my dead skin too be gross and I don't appreciate it, especially if I have already done most of it and it's not a halachic problem.
I could go on and on, but I think everyone should be required to have someone watch the tevilah but bringing in your own person is a great idea.


My kallah teacher years ago was very strong that we must stand up for ourselves.
She said that if anything the mikva lady does makes you uncomfortable tell her to stop.
If you don't agree - stand your ground that she must call your rav.
She explained there is no requirement to be checked and if anything makes you uncomfortable tell them to stop or ask for someone else.
(She is very right wing, a ML herself)
I'm very grateful today that she gave me the advice and it gave me the strength to use it - although my situations weren't so bad like you described. I wish all women realize they have this choice.
Back to top

sky




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2016, 1:47 pm
octopus wrote:
I'm not sure I understand. I thought the mikvah lady is there also so that no one gets hurt/drowns. I'm thinking of the legality of this for the mikvah's sake. What if G-d forbid something happens, and no one was there to watch dunk, can mikvah be sued. Or am I thinking like an american?


I've understood its an insurance thing - there has to be an attendant. And what if G-d forbid a women trips on the steps. It is very discouraged to go swimming alone, I don't see how this is different.
Back to top

cnc




 
 
    
 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2016, 1:51 pm
sky wrote:
I've understood its an insurance thing - there has to be an attendant. And what if G-d forbid a women trips on the steps. It is very discouraged to go swimming alone, I don't see how this is different.


Interesting, when I go in my 9th month (minhag)-the attendant doesn't come in.
Back to top

amother
Ivory


 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2016, 2:11 pm
ora_43 wrote:
"It's your fault" is pretty harsh, amother. Maybe she just hasn't had two decades of marriage to develop the confidence to tell people to back the **** off.

And either way, the mikva lady's bad behavior would still be on the mikva lady.

I apologize for sounding harsh. I didn't mean it the way it sounded and you are right; It is not the fault of the OP for her pain and suffering in the hands of her ML.
The one accountable for that is the ML and no one else.

What I meant to emphasize was the importance of taking the correct measures by supporting one's own self respect in those situations.

I therefore suggested to the OP (adding now; and anyone else presently experiencing similar behaviors) to stick up for themselves and not allow anything done to them which they don't appreciate!

Just like there is no halachig obligation for a ML to physically touch a client against her wishes
so it works vise verse; There is no halachig obligation to accept physical treatment, especially disrespect, from a ML.

BTW, I learned to self respect myself at the mikvah way before my first decade of marriage and kept it since. I guess that contributed allot to the uplifting feeling I obtained all these years while I continuously enjoy observing the mitzvah of mikvah in comfort and in peace.
Back to top

amother
Ivory


 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2016, 2:17 pm
chavamom wrote:
A mikvah lady that screamed at me because I turned on (cold) water on shabbos at the mikvah, one that started cutting my nails to the quick without asking because she thought they weren't short enough, one that attacked my navel with a Q-tip....I can keep going.

She checked your naval? Seriously?? This is the first I've heard of "naval checking"!

Wow that was really crossing the line!!
Back to top

amother
Chartreuse


 

Post Thu, Jun 23 2016, 6:55 pm
amother wrote:
I therefore suggested to the OP (adding now; and anyone else presently experiencing similar behaviors) to stick up for themselves and not allow anything done to them which they don't appreciate!


I have gone to several different mikvaos in the US and while it might have been uncomfortable to be in a new place it never once felt humiliating the way it was in EY. The way the MLs insisted, yes insisted on redoing my chafifa, cutting or filing my nails, making me go down a checklist of how I prepared etc. etc. Even after I stood up for myself and said I'm uncomfortable with it, I don't want them to, they continued, saying this is what the rav of the mikvah demands. So no, this is not a matter of being assertive. What are you supposed to do when the ML says this is only way to toivel in this mikva? It isn't always an option to go to another one.

My minhag is not to check anything on Friday night, just undress and dunk. The ML wouldn't agree no matter how much I said this is what I hold. "If we find a problem we can call a Filipina in to fix it." What should I have done, hold my ground and not be able to toivel or swallow my pride and self worth and do what she says?

Thank G-d this law was passed, hopefully the mikvaos, MLs and rabannim will listen.
Back to top

pizzaknish




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jun 24 2016, 2:16 am
octopus wrote:
I'm not sure I understand. I thought the mikvah lady is there also so that no one gets hurt/drowns. I'm thinking of the legality of this for the mikvah's sake. What if G-d forbid something happens, and no one was there to watch dunk, can mikvah be sued. Or am I thinking like an american?


The purpose of the mikvah lady is to ensure the validity of the immersion. Her job is to see that the entire body is immersed in the water at once and not even one hair remains above the water.

It is a halachic issue, not a legal one.
Back to top
Page 2 of 2 Previous  1  2 Recent Topics




Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum -> Interesting Discussions

Related Topics Replies Last Post
Suri jaroslawitz - challah lady question
by amother
19 Mon, Mar 04 2024, 9:18 pm View last post
Ayin Hara Lady
by Mide7
4 Fri, Feb 23 2024, 2:32 am View last post
Pregnant cleaning lady
by amother
11 Sat, Feb 17 2024, 11:04 pm View last post
Mikvah open late?
by amother
4 Sat, Feb 17 2024, 10:29 pm View last post
Upstate ny - any mens mikvah open? 8 Fri, Feb 16 2024, 2:02 pm View last post