Whoever speaks against a Rabbi will go to gehenom

amother

Cerulean

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 1:11 am

I read somewhere that it says in the Talmud that whoever speaks against a Rabbi/Torah scholar will go to gehenom. I don't remember if these were the exact words but it was something like that. What do you women out there think about this? Do you think that it also applies to Rabbis who do things that hurt people?

DrMom

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 1:14 am

amother wrote:

I (personally) think it is very convenient that Tabbis/Torah scholars wrote this.

And of course one may speak out against someone who hurts people! Use your common sense and don't let anyone intimidate you.

amother

Beige

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 1:18 am

If someone hurts people, he aint no rabbi or talmud chochom.

In fact, it is written that a person who knows a lot of Torah and yet has horrible middos is a most dangerous kind of person.

The Baal Shem Tov taught about fake tzaddikim, those who appear pious and holy yet who are evil within.

Rebbe Nachman taught that these fake tzaddikim bring a lot of harm to the world. And cause much confusion and chaos and cause many to lose their emunah.

So no, someone who hurts people under the guise and protection of the title rabbi needs to be called out on it to protect people he can hurt and validate the people who have been hurt.

PinkFridge

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 9:40 am

wrote:

IF they did.
And if they did, obviously it's about a scholar/leader/etc. who is worthy of the title.
And "speaking against" also needs clarification. Is it talking to someone else, someone wise, without negios, for a reality check? Or is it posting anonymous allegations, and doing so on blogs, etc. that already have a rep for being slimy?

As this thread develops, I caution everyone to write in a way that maintains respect for rabbanim and talmidei chachamim.

marina

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 9:46 am

amother wrote:

Lol. I think it's pretty convenient. If I was a controlling leader who wanted my people to obey without questioning, that's exactly what I'd teach. If you speak against me, God will punish you.

marina

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 9:48 am

But I think it's probably important to see the exact cite before making conclusions. And if you don't have the cite, I retract my above post and disregard the OP's original statement.

shaindy3

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 1:14 pm

DrMom wrote:

I'm sensing some serious rabbi hate here.
I would be very scared to mess with rabbis especially when it comes the Rabbi's from the gemara.

shaindy3

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 1:15 pm

marina wrote:

Lol. I think it's pretty convenient. If I was a controlling leader who wanted my people to obey without questioning, that's exactly what I'd teach. If you speak against me, God will punish you.

Wow. Just wow.
And what religion do you consider yourself from?

PinkFridge

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 1:19 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

I think I might do a spinoff. Why did this get a hug? Let me count the possible ways:
- You poor naïve fool. May the inevitable schooling life gives you be gentle.
- I couldn't give you a raspberry.
- I love you and wish I could have said this under my sn but I'm just so scared of the inevitable - the usual suspect apikorsot ripping into me.*
- Liking wasn't enough.
Am I missing any? Very Happy

* Don't be. I don't know who you're thinking of but everyone's nice here.

leah233

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 1:21 pm

amother wrote:

Why don't you first find out what exactly the Talmud says?

And the correct context as to when it applies.

Then you can invite everyone on Imamother to attack it...

because if it just "something you read somewhere"and you "don't remember the exact words" maybe the attacks that this post will generate are premature...

Last edited by leah233 on Mon, Jun 27 2016, 1:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Linen

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 1:39 pm

It's statements like these that allow the likes of meisels and pogrow to get away with what they did for so long.

Unfortunately people speak when they shouldn't and when it's really letoeles they keep quiet in the name of 'loshen hora' (read :going to gehenom)

I'm my life I have come to realize that no rabbi/talmid chochom should be put on a pedestal. Because they are human like you and me, and yes, sometimes it's necessary to speak "'bad" about them.

amother

Red

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 2:04 pm

It's so funny how people conveniently forget the Aseres Hadibros. We should be nice to each other is basic. Hurting another fellow Jew is a sin. Hurting a Talmid Chochom is a bigger sin.

It goes without saying that a Talmich Chochom who hurts other people is not fulfilling the Aseres Hadibros so therefore he is not a Talmid Chochom.

How many people do you know keep all Aseres Hadibros to begin with? There are so many nasty frum Jews that I have to question this.

amother

Beige

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 2:08 pm

shaindy3 wrote:

I'm sensing some serious rabbi hate here.
I would be very scared to mess with rabbis especially when it comes the Rabbi's from the gemara.

Nopes. Just hate for reshaim who put on the costume of Rabbi and do malicious acts against the Torah.

imasoftov

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 2:16 pm

amother wrote:

I agree we should be nice to one another, but which of the Aseret Hadibrot tells us to?

LeahRivka

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 2:16 pm

Have to say I am truly surprised by the tone of some of the comments.

That being said, from the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch:
You must honor and fear your Rebbe more than your father. He only brought you life in this world but your Rebbe brings you life in the World to Come...It is a positive command to rise before a Torah scholar who is distinguished in Torah knowledge...It is a grave sin to humiliate talmidei chachomim or to hate them. Jerusalem was not detroyed until they began to humiliate talmidei chachomim, as it is said, "But they mocked the messengers of G-d and disgraced His words, and scoffed at His prophets."...

There is more, but that is the first portion of Chapter 144.

imasoftov

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 2:26 pm

Now we just don't need a a way know if a beit din keeps halacha, we also need to know which rabbis are "Torah scholars who are distinguished on Torah knowledge". I'm sure my frumometer will run wear out before I finish measuring every rabbi in the world.

mirror

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 2:45 pm

imasoftov wrote:

Also remember to include their advice in your Frumometer. Some Rabbonim can give you golden advice. Others not so.

a. Divrei Torah - scale 1 to 10 . 10 is best

b. Personality

c. Breadth and depth of learning

d. Doesn't lie to IRS

e. Doesn't hurt people

f. Doesn't use position to do d or e

g. Advice - Does it work some of the time or most of the time or never?

h. Does his family dress Tznius or provocative?

I. Does his family do Chesed?

PinkFridge

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 2:50 pm

amother wrote:

Statements like what? Do you know the exact statement?

PinkFridge

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 2:51 pm

imasoftov wrote:

I agree we should be nice to one another, but which of the Aseret Hadibrot tells us to?

Anochi.
If you love Hashem, you love His creations.