Whoever speaks against a Rabbi will go to gehenom

amother

Red

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 3:01 pm

PinkFridge wrote:

Anochi.
If you love Hashem, you love His creations.

And from statements like "Don't kill" and "Don't steal" and "Don't bear false witness" we can deduce that it's okay to make up lies about people and spread them as long as you don't do these acts?

amother

Beige

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 4:00 pm

marina wrote:

But here's the good news y'all;

Many many rabbonim in the Gemara and later on and even today talk trash about each other. So if I end up there, I will be in great company! Good news!

I'm tempted to start bringing in some comments from the Raavad attacking the Rambam's views...

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 4:04 pm

I don't know what that gemora is referring to but this blog post seems like a prime example of what they must have meant.

People don't know what the gemora said, when it applies or even if it exists altogether.

But that doesn't stop some posters here from jumping onto the rabbi bashing fest. After all anonymous allegations were made. .Facts don't matter.Understanding the gemorah doesn't either. Let's just bash Chazal and the rabbis

amother

Beige

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 4:05 pm

HSG wrote:

Have to say I am truly surprised by the tone of some of the comments.

That being said, from the Kitzur Shulchan Aruch:
You must honor and fear your Rebbe more than your father. He only brought you life in this world but your Rebbe brings you life in the World to Come...It is a positive command to rise before a Torah scholar who is distinguished in Torah knowledge...It is a grave sin to humiliate talmidei chachomim or to hate them. Jerusalem was not detroyed until they began to humiliate talmidei chachomim, as it is said, "But they mocked the messengers of G-d and disgraced His words, and scoffed at His prophets."...

There is more, but that is the first portion of Chapter 144.

Of course, of course.

We respect talmidei chochomim.

Not monsters and molesters and corrupt power hungry ruthless individuals who pretend to be talmidei chochomim.

amother

Beige

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 4:09 pm

amother wrote:

I don't know what that gemora is referring to but this blog post seems like a prime example of what they must have meant.

People don't know what the gemora said, when it applies or even if it exists altogether.

But that doesn't stop some posters here from jumping onto the rabbi bashing fest. After all anonymous allegations were made. Let's bash Chazal and the rabbis.Facts don't matter.

Okay, seriously?

Let's say there is no such gemara.

We are discussing the concept of not talking bad about a talmid chochom or rabbi.

We are NOT bashing rabbis or talmidei chochomim.

We are bashing people who PRETEND to be talmidei chochomim and rabbis and really use their position to do despicable things.

If you think these people are worthy of our awe and respect and we must silently close our mouths and brains and let them get away with the absolute disgrace they are creating, put down the kool aid you're drinking from. Right now.

(And btw, this isn't a blog post. It is a forum with threads and posts.)

amother

Fuchsia

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 4:12 pm

amother wrote:

Okay, seriously?

We are NOT bashing rabbis or talmidei chochomim.

We are bashing people who PRETEND to be talmidei chochomim and rabbis and really use their position to do despicable things.

(And btw, this isn't a blog post. It is a forum with threads and posts.)

You sure could have fooled me. Nothing in the OPs post indicates this about bashing people who PRETEND to be talmidei chochomim and rabbis and really use their position to do despicable things. Neither do the responses.

And if it is why mention some gemorah that you don't know if it really exists?

amother

Beige

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 4:16 pm

amother wrote:

Basic reading comprehension skills would suggest that this line from the OP:

Do you think that it also applies to Rabbis who do things that hurt people?

"indicates this about bashing people who PRETEND to be talmidei chochomim and rabbis and really use their position to do despicable things."

As for the responses, here's mine:

If someone hurts people, he aint no rabbi or talmud chochom.

In fact, it is written that a person who knows a lot of Torah and yet has horrible middos is a most dangerous kind of person.

The Baal Shem Tov taught about fake tzaddikim, those who appear pious and holy yet who are evil within.

Rebbe Nachman taught that these fake tzaddikim bring a lot of harm to the world. And cause much confusion and chaos and cause many to lose their emunah.

So no, someone who hurts people under the guise and protection of the title rabbi needs to be called out on it to protect people he can hurt and validate the people who have been hurt.

Hmm?

amother

Burgundy

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 4:19 pm

When I grew up and moved on from the sect in which I had been raised, I would often discuss the faults of the rebbe of the sect, and why and how his bad actions have led to certain behaviors and culture in his followers. I was constantly threatened with "revenge" from the Rebbe, who was dead. I was always told that I will live to regret speaking against him, and one who utters even one bad word against a rebbe will be harshly punished. The funniest part about this was that I even heard it from people who had also completely rejected the Rebbe's teachings and philosophy and had moved away too!

Like marina said, what a convenient way to keep followers in line.

amother

Beige

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 5:59 pm

amother wrote:

From reading Imamother you would think that only men with long beards hurt people. I have a long list of people who hurt me and I don't have a single Rabbi on this list.

Wow, I'm sooo happy for you that no rabbi hurt you!

Guess what?

Many people WERE hurt by rabbis.

I was hurt by some rabbis very deeply.

Yes there are other people who hurt people. Right now we're talking about rabbis. Or rather, fake rabbis.

If you want to start a spinoff about other types of people who hurt you, go right ahead.

tigerwife

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 6:17 pm

I feel like we are in a similar times to pre-churban. Klal Yisroel was overridden by false prophets. In the end, no one listened to the one real navi, Yirmiyahu.

Unfortunately, the amount of rabbanim who wittingly or even unwittingly wrong people make the klal blind to our talmidai chachomim in general. And I do believe there are still many righteous rabbanim out there. They may not necessarily be powerful but they are worthy of our respect. If you had a bad experience by the doctor, do you boycott all PhDs?

amother

Cerise

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 7:24 pm

I was hurt terribly by a few rabbis, and rebbitzens, yet, I still show utmost respect for them, as they are humans beings. All human beings deserve to be treated respectfully, no matter how bad their mistakes are.
I view it as something I need to do for me, not for them.
I don't speak badly about them to anyone unless it is to help me or to help someone else.

I still seek Halachic (sometimes other) counsel from a rabbi, albeit, a different rabbi. However, I challenge his responses more.

I do question a lot nowadays. I like the comparison to the times before the chrban, it resonates with me.

Do I hate certain rabbis? Yes!
Was I happy to hear that one died? Yes!
Do I think anyone with the title rabbi fits the description? Absolutely not!

PinkFridge

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 7:47 pm

amother wrote:

And from statements like "Don't kill" and "Don't steal" and "Don't bear false witness" we can deduce that it's okay to make up lies about people and spread them as long as you don't do these acts?

Hey, believe it or not even I have to work hard not to grow cynical on a good day. (And that's on a good day.)
Are you about to go make up lies and spread them yourself just because you've had the misfortune to see others who should know better do that? No. You're going to try to spread light and be the best person you can. I assume.

PinkFridge

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 7:48 pm

amother wrote:

So sorry you felt you couldn't use your name to say that.
But ITA. I'm using my name, for all of us.

PinkFridge

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 7:50 pm

amother wrote:

OK. So I disagree with Fuschia's use of the term blog. I guess I don't totally agree.
But if you are right, then l'maan Hashem, OP should rename the thread.

PinkFridge

Mon, Jun 27 2016, 7:52 pm

amother wrote:

I agree with this too. And OP's genuine pain is obvious and should be validated. But there have been some poorly worded posts on this thread.