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Forum
-> Interesting Discussions
PinkFridge
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Mon, Jun 27 2016, 7:56 pm
amother wrote: | I was hurt terribly by a few rabbis, and rebbitzens, yet, I still show utmost respect for them, as they are humans beings. All human beings deserve to be treated respectfully, no matter how bad their mistakes are.
I view it as something I need to do for me, not for them.
I don't speak badly about them to anyone unless it is to help me or to help someone else.
I still seek Halachic (sometimes other) counsel from a rabbi, albeit, a different rabbi. However, I challenge his responses more.
I do question a lot nowadays. I like the comparison to the times before the chrban, it resonates with me.
Do I hate certain rabbis? Yes!
Was I happy to hear that one died? Yes!
Do I think anyone with the title rabbi fits the description? Absolutely not! |
I salute you for not throwing the baby out with the bath water.
I don't know what kind of hurt you experienced but I doubt it's the kind others are referring to.
Yes, there is the concept of recognizing the image of G-d in everyone. It's why we dip the wine at the makkos. It's why people who deserve and get the death penalty should still be buried. But some people simply abdicate their right to utmost respect by their actions.
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amother
Beige
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Mon, Jun 27 2016, 8:54 pm
shaindy3 wrote: | Rabbi's from the gemara do malicious acts??!!
May g-d have mercy on your soul |
Uh where did I say that??
Some reading comprehension skills, please.
OP asked if what the gemara may have said about rabbonim apply to rabbonim who hurt people.
I answered, quoting the Baal Shem Tov and others, that these people are NOT real rabbonim, they are deceitful opportunists who use the title of rabbi to protect themselves from being called out on their shameful behavior.
That is all. Seriously. I have utmost respect for genuine tzaddikim, talmidei chachomim, and rabbonim. Because of my respect for daas Torah, I would never call an evil person who gets a position as a rabbi and abuses his position to do much harm and damage to klal Yisroel a tzaddik. They are fake rabbis.
Do you understand now?
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amother
Cerulean
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Mon, Jun 27 2016, 8:58 pm
Another I completely agree with you. Everything that you said is exactly how I feel.
amother wrote: | Uh where did I say that??
Some reading comprehension skills, please.
OP asked if what the gemara may have said about rabbonim apply to rabbonim who hurt people.
I answered, quoting the Baal Shem Tov and others, that these people are NOT real rabbonim, they are deceitful opportunists who use the title of rabbi to protect themselves from being called out on their shameful behavior.
That is all. Seriously. I have utmost respect for genuine tzaddikim, talmidei chachomim, and rabbonim. Because of my respect for daas Torah, I would never call an evil person who gets a position as a rabbi and abuses his position to do much harm and damage to klal Yisroel a tzaddik. They are fake rabbis.
Do you understand now? |
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BrachaBatya
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Mon, Jun 27 2016, 10:17 pm
amother wrote: | I read somewhere that it says in the Talmud that whoever speaks against a Rabbi/Torah scholar will go to gehenom. I don't remember if these were the exact words but it was something like that. What do you women out there think about this? Do you think that it also applies to Rabbis who do things that hurt people? |
Uhoh, there's going to be a big crowd in Gehenom!!!!!!!
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amother
Periwinkle
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Mon, Jun 27 2016, 10:19 pm
BrachaBatya wrote: | Uhoh, there's going to be a big crowd in Gehenom!!!!!!! |
"In life, there are only two things to worry about—
Either you are well or you are sick.
If you are well, there is nothing to worry about,
But if you are sick, there are only two things to worry about—
Either you will get well or you will die.
If you get well, there is nothing to worry about,
But if you die, there are only two things to worry about—
Either you will go to heaven or hell.
If you go to heaven, there is nothing to worry about.
And if you go to hell, you’ll be so busy shaking hands with all your friends
You won’t have time to worry!"
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amother
Cerise
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Mon, Jun 27 2016, 10:27 pm
PinkFridge wrote: | I salute you for not throwing the baby out with the bath water.
I don't know what kind of hurt you experienced but I doubt it's the kind others are referring to.
Yes, there is the concept of recognizing the image of G-d in everyone. It's why we dip the wine at the makkos. It's why people who deserve and get the death penalty should still be buried. But some people simply abdicate their right to utmost respect by their actions. |
I was hurt in that I was told to apologize to my abuser and go back to the original situation, Etc. rabbi was too afraid of abuser, rather lick my sibling up and ruin his name for life. Yup, it was bad.
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amother
Beige
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Mon, Jun 27 2016, 10:58 pm
BrachaBatya wrote: | Uhoh, there's going to be a big crowd in Gehenom!!!!!!! |
If I go to hell for speaking against a so called rabbi and the exploitation and abuse he subjected my friend at one of the most vulnerable stages of her life, so be it.
I'd go to such a hell over that rabbi's paradise any day.
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5mom
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Tue, Jun 28 2016, 1:17 am
I'm not familiar with the saying that the op quoted. I just wanted to point out that the gemara is chock full of statements that have no follow up in halacha or hashkafa. So even if the quote exists, it doesn't necessarily have practical implications.
We are supposed to respect rabbis. And we are supposed to know that they can make mistakes. And we are supposed to protect ourselves and our community.
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imasoftov
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Tue, Jun 28 2016, 8:14 am
amother wrote: | And from statements like "Don't kill" and "Don't steal" and "Don't bear false witness" we can deduce that it's okay to make up lies about people and spread them as long as you don't do these acts? |
What part of "I agree we should be nice to one another" left my post open to that interpretation?
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PinkFridge
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Tue, Jun 28 2016, 9:12 am
amother wrote: | I was hurt in that I was told to apologize to my abuser and go back to the original situation, Etc. rabbi was too afraid of abuser, rather lick my sibling up and ruin his name for life. Yup, it was bad. |
I'm sorry for the assumption. What you experienced was terrible.
I hope you understood my points - saluting you for still maintaining your respect for those who deserve it and that while everyone by virtue of being born has some intrinsic worth, some people have buried it so deep that we can and should relate to them differently.
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PinkFridge
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Tue, Jun 28 2016, 9:15 am
amother wrote: | If I go to hell for speaking against a so called rabbi and the exploitation and abuse he subjected my friend at one of the most vulnerable stages of her life, so be it.
I'd go to such a hell over that rabbi's paradise any day. |
Reminds me of this story: some evangelical type was telling a Jew all about how easy it is to get to heaven as long as one accepts J. The Jew said, so those babies who went into the fire by the wagonload in the Holocaust, who never accepted J in their hearts are in hell, while someone who committed the worst crimes, as long as he accepted J before he died goes to heaven? The missionary said yes. The Jew said, I'm going to hell with the babies.
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