Am I expecting too much?

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 12:06 pm

I'm pretty frustrated, and I'm also really torn as to whetehr I'm expecting too much or too little help from my 17yr old.

A little background:
She's the oldest at home.
There are quite a few kids under her and we still have a toddler who take up a lot of my energy.
Throughout the school year I am carefull not to ask her for too much help as I can see how overwelmed she is just with schoowork.Her regualr duties are folding the laundery and once in a while (like once in two weeks) being asked to help watch the kids if DH and I go out. Many times I'll get in a babysitter even when she's home because she''ll be busy with studies/projects / social events and I dont wnat her to feel she's losing out because of her younger siblings. On Shabbos afternoon she takes turns with 2 other siblings to watch the 2 youngest while we rest. It amounts to 1 hr or so each.
I'm sort of ok with this. I sometimes resent that she does so little (honestly, her younger siblings help out far more regularly).
But she has just finished 12th grade and is enjoying her sense of freedom before starting sem.
She has a morning job (to earn some pocket money) and when she gets home she's too tired to do anytihng but go to sleep.
I am a working mother. I work from home. When I have a lot of backlog I am under a lot of pressure to work even when kids are home, and I shall sometimes call in a babysitter just so that I can sit in my office and work. Right now it's almost impossible to find babysitters as it's start of vacation and they all have stuff going on.
I was really hoping she would help put the little ones to sleep this evening (it can take hours!!) as DH is out of town, and I am swamped with work... but, no - she has to go out with friends. When I say that I was hoping for help, she gives me this melancholy look, like I'm asking the world.
Am I really asking too much? Are my expectations unfair?
I'm asking this without any sarcasm. I really would like to know what I can safely ask without feeling that I'm imposing my childrearing issues on her jsut because she's oldest and happens to be around.
On teh other hand - there;s also an educational aspect here. Shouldnt a teenager - and especially an older one - learn that she has an obligation to help out when help is needed, not just when she feels like it?
I'm really torn her.
Please offer me some input !

PAMOM

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 12:15 pm

While I had regular household responsibilities when I was a teenager (and younger), if my mother asked me to take care of my younger sibs during a period where she'd otherwise bring someone in, she always paid me for babysitting. Her expectations were more "professional" too. I had to organize activities, prepare meals or snacks, clean up messed my sibs made,etc., but I never resented these times since I was being hired for a job.
(My regular household responsibilities included alternating cleaning up after dinner with next sister, raking leaves, emptying trash cans, and so on, including some Shabbat sib-watching.)

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 1:00 pm

If she already had plans to go out, then it's really unfair to put a guilt trip on her.

If she's making plans with friends, she needs to take responsibility and tell you in advance, and make sure she's not leaving you in the lurch.

Before it happens again, work on communicating in advance what the family plans are. Tell her which days and times you'll need her, and try not to spring things on her at the last minute. I also agree that she should be paid as much as you would pay someone else to babysit. She is your child, not your "extra parent".

Make sure that you tell her OFTEN how much you appreciate her, how proud you are of her, and what things she does that are such a great help to you. A few words can go a long way to help prevent resentment from setting in. Don't tell her while you're running out the door, take her out for pizza sometime and really connect with her.

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 1:44 pm

OP here.
Pamom - I also do that sometimes, When I know taht I would pay for a babysitter just can't manage to find one, then I offer her money for babysitting. She's fine with that,. She's just hardly around.
It\s intersting - it looks like you had far more duties than my daughter has.

FranticFrummie - thanks for your input.
It's true that I'm not always organized so I tend 2 make impulsive decisions about when I need help, etc. And I compliment my kids a lot - but I don't really spend that much quality time with her lately. We've been going through a really tough time lately with a number of sick relatives, and it's affecting how much energy I have for the kids - which makes me very sad.
I guess I should cut her some slack.

amother

Royalblue

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 1:48 pm

Just thinking back to when I was a teenager, I didn't mind helping around the house, but I did resent impositions on my time. In other words, if the times you need your daughter to babysit are the only times her friends or activities are available (especially if this is dd's last vacation and/or all her friends are about to go off to sem separately), then she's not going to want to babysit. If you want to let her keep that freedom, have her help in other ways around the house that she can do at any time of day. When I was that age, I did laundry (not just fold - washer, dryer, the works), washing dishes and/or unloading the clean dishes back to the cabinets, taking out the recycling, vacuuming, washing the kitchen/bathroom floors. My mom would tell me that chore X has to be done every Sunday (for example), but I can do it any time until 8 pm that day. This way, I could schedule my own life and feel like I was helping without it imposing on me.

Hope this helps.

pointyshoes

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 2:22 pm

Agree with above posters about having a plan. I always appreciated when I was told in advance what I had to do with the hours it had to be done in.
For eg. Clean up the kitchen between 3-6pm
There were times when my mom would yell up the stairs 'come help!' And I'd ask what she wants doing and she would just say 'help! Look around and help!! You live here too!'
And I found that so unreasonable.
Give specific jobs for specific times in a realistic manner

heidi

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 2:27 pm

OP, I'm sorry you are overwhelmed. It is not your daughter's job to help you raise the children that you chose to have. Good for her that she has the guts to stick up for herself. Helping as part of a family means just that-- chipping in with laundry or dinner or clean up. NOT babysitting for parents so they can rest on Shabbos afternoon or giving up time with friends. Your daughter will grow up and IY"H have all these responsibilities to her own children. I hope she manages to handle it without making her children do her work.

amother

Maroon

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 2:37 pm

OP

I have teens who help out at home a lot but I always let them do their social, studying, job activities before chores and helping with younger siblings except when there are unusual circumstances. DH is not home, sick family members and a job deadline. To me that is unusual circumstances so there is nothing wrong with her pitching in a family emergency.

In ordinary circumstances you need her give her advance notice, so she can make plans.

Bedtime, why does it take hours for the younger children to go to bed? I think you are losing valuable time there. Try to find a solution to that problem.

sweetpotato

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 2:56 pm

Caveat that I don't yet have teenage daughters but here are some lessons I learned from how my own mom treated me when I was that age, and what I've seen from other families that seem to have a good system of older kids who carry their weight while not being exploited.

You have to model the behavior you want from your daughter and you have to acknowledge her contribution as an almost adult. It sounds like you rely on her inconsistently and as back-up. That's not giving her a clear view of what expectations you have for her, and what her contribution to the family is supposed to be. Can you tell her "I need you to be available to supervise baths and bedtime on 2 nights a week. Which nights can you do it?" or "Abba is going to be out of town in two weeks and I will need you to help me with the younger ones on these nights." Sometimes obviously emergencies come up and she'll need to help, but instead of turning to her in desperation without advance warning, make it a planned-ahead thing. And at the same time, if she has made plans to be out of the house at a time when you didn't ask her to be available, respect that and don't resent it.

My mother also made sure to pay me in some way when I babysat for her, but only when I was much younger (10-12). By 17, I was expected to do it (but my siblings were older at that point, so it wasn't demanding). But at the younger age, I think it really helped me appreciate the responsibility and showed me that she acknowledged my work.

I think it's important to have children contribute in the family and have designated responsibilities as siblings. Asking for reasonable help in caring for her younger siblings isn't imposing on her. Just make sure it's evenly distributed (as reasonable for their ages) and also adequately acknowledged.

Helping me learn skills and responsibility is one of the greatest things my mom taught me.

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 4:00 pm

OP here.
Thanks all for your valuable insight.
I can see that my biggest problem is not being organized. It's hard - I often have no idea how certain days will unfold, Even when I order in a babysitter im often second guessing what times ill need her. I do lneed more structure. And I totally get how asking her to help at the last minute can mess up her day. I do think though that desperate times sometimes call for desperate measures. And sometimes I have to ask for extra help.
Usually she really tries her best, I just have to take care to try and understand her point of view (its hard for a teen to relate to the kind of stress we;re under with our sick relatives. They will never really get it - and hopefully they should never have to).

Heidi - the one thing I disagree with is the point about babysitting on Shabbos afternoon.
Apart from folding laundry (NOT washing or ironing or even putting away....!) watching the baby for one and a half hours on Shabbos afternoon is the only other regular task she is expected to do. What is wrong with that?
I watch them fri night while DH is in shul (she goes out with friends) and I get up early when th elittle ones wake while the older teens all sleep in till almost lunch (they wake up with barely enough time to daven). The only time she has to pitch in is the afternoon - for one hour and a bit!!! She has all the rest of the afternoon to sleep or enjoy her friends' company.
Why is that a problem? I would think it the height of selfishness for her to ignore that her parents also need some Shabbos rest, and I don't consider it too much to ask.

Chayalle

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 4:04 pm

heidi wrote:

Though I agree that a teen should not be expected to help raise the children, I hardly think that watching two young siblings for 1 hour on Shabbos afternoon is raising the children. I think it's respecting parents, who work really hard to give her free time the rest of the week, by allowing them the chance to rest up and recharge.

OP, like others have posted, I think this is more about scheduling and respecting her need for time with her friends.

Chayalle

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 4:06 pm

amother wrote:

Posted before I saw this. OP, I'm the mother of a just-graduated 12th grader and I fully agree with you. I don't think once-a-week babysitting for about an hour is too much. It's not a problem IMVHO.

FranticFrummie

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 4:09 pm

How old is your second oldest child? Are they capable of pitching in?

I've seen families where the oldest child goes away to camp, and all of a sudden the second oldest gets a chance to shine. They suddenly step up to the plate and really take over in a mature way! All this time, they were watching and learning, and as soon as they were out of the shadow of the oldest, they amazed everyone.

Give the next oldest a chance (unless there's a big age gap, like he's 10 and has ADD or something.)

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 4:19 pm

Thanks, Chayelle.
As to your question FranticFrummie - the next one is 14 and after that there is a 12 yr old. They both pitch in and do tehir bit. In fact, in certain ways they help out even more as they seem to have less of a need for independence and time out with friends. One of them loves coooking/baking and is a fantastic help in the kitchen (took me time to learn to let her have the run of the place - I used to be very territorial about my kitchen Very Happy

but today I'm enjoying the benefits...).
The 14 yr old also helps with general tidying at times and here and there with the kids - but she, too, doesn't have regular duties.
I think I should sit with them and try and work out a standard plan that works well for all of us. Now it's summer so it's a good time for new beginnings before the start of the new school year.
Why does the thought of it sound so challenging for me?

amother

Ivory

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 4:35 pm

Paying her or rewarding her in some way for the babysitting and chores is a great idea.
My siblings and I had each had a small list of chores to do on Fridays in preparation for Shabbat. We knew what they were and automatically completed them every week. I am the oldest in my family and my mother would never put me in charge of bedtime. However, she would leave the kids home with me to go on a short errand. there was not much to do besides supervise and make sure everyone was safe so I didn't really mind.

amother

Hotpink

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 4:41 pm

Yup Chayelle - u're right, I tend to flow with whatever comes. I do plan ahead, but I'll often tweak my plans if different things come up.
But I do see teh value of giving the kids more of an idea of what's expected from them on a regular basis - we really don;t do that very well at present.

Re Fridays - we have a standard list of erev Shabbos chores and every Friday they sit down and work it out between themselves. I think that's more fair than having each kid being lumped with one chore that they might eventually get fed up of - like this they can take turns at doing different things. Erev Shabbos preps actually run really well by us, B'H.
Actually - now that I think about it - that's the one day a week when they know exactly what's expected of them (even if they only decide on the various chores each Friday afternoon - they decide who does what.)

greenfire

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 4:43 pm

amother wrote:

OP here.

Heidi - the one thing I disagree with is the point about babysitting on Shabbos afternoon.
Apart from folding laundry (NOT washing or ironing or even putting away....!) watching the baby for one and a half hours on Shabbos afternoon is the only other regular task she is expected to do. What is wrong with that?
I watch them fri night while DH is in shul (she goes out with friends) and I get up early when th elittle ones wake while the older teens all sleep in till almost lunch (they wake up with barely enough time to daven). The only time she has to pitch in is the afternoon - for one hour and a bit!!! She has all the rest of the afternoon to sleep or enjoy her friends' company.
Why is that a problem? I would think it the height of selfishness for her to ignore that her parents also need some Shabbos rest, and I don't consider it too much to ask.

you actually just proved how it really is your job ... your husband and you should take turns watching the little ones so each of you can rest ... she didn't choose to have your children - you & your husband did

she is a teenager with a need to sleep late & hang out with friends

while everyone should hold their own in a family community - it means cleaning up after oneself and taking turns pitching in - not raising kids to expect them to raise their siblings

goodmorning

Tue, Jul 05 2016, 4:53 pm

heidi wrote:

Helping with siblings during a crunch time so that her mother can work (and presumably earn the money to pay for that expensive seminary tuition!) is not called "helping as part of the family"?

I think it's important to find a balance between housework/help with siblings + school + work + friends. But I agree with other posters that it does not seem like an onerous amount of work, even if it could use some pre-scheduling.

And as someone who frequently did bathtime/bedtime/playtime/babysitting/feeding with my siblings when I was a teenager, I think that it's great for teenagers to help take care of their siblings. I gained not only knowledge and skills that I use today, but also a strong relationship with my siblings (who, as teenagers now, frequently help me out with my children).