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Forum -> Parenting our children -> Preschoolers
DD tells me I'm not tznius
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amother
Denim


 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:16 pm
DD is 4 and if she sees me walking around sans stockings or in just a slip she tells me I'm not tznius.
I don't think it's a problem for me to walk around like this in my home but she's picking it up somewhere. I already stopped wearing pajamas cuz she told me pants are not tznius.
do I need to explain to her that although I would go out like this it's okay in my own house? thinking maybe such an explanation is above a 4 yr old's understanding and I don't want to confuse her.
also, she's a big mouth and goes around telling her friends and teachers everything I say and do.
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amother
Lawngreen


 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:17 pm
She is just repeating what they teach her in school.
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Stars




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:17 pm
Depending on where you live, if you don't want her to tell her morah that her mommy goes bare legged *gasp* then don't do it.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:18 pm
I forgot to mention that I love her and she's amazing and so smart and cute. I'm asking this from a purely hashkafic angle.
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amother
Ecru


 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:21 pm
When my daughter was about 2 years old she would get very upset when I put my shaitel up into a pony... she would tell me to put on a shaitle.. not that she ever saw me with an uncovered head...
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notshanarishona




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:22 pm
I would tell her at home only you can walk around in PJ's but not in front of other people .
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:23 pm
amother wrote:
I forgot to mention that I love her and she's amazing and so smart and cute. I'm asking this from a purely hashkafic angle.
what are you asking exactly?
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Stars




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:25 pm
amother wrote:
I forgot to mention that I love her and she's amazing and so smart and cute.


and so?
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amother
Denim


 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:28 pm
I guess I'm asking if I should explain it to her or if I should stop doing these things. does my little girl get to decide my standards? will I stop doing everything she thinks isn't frum enough? again, in a hashkafic view, not as in "I'm the mom, ur the daughter so you don't get to decide anything".

I like your explanation notshanarishona. will it be like the proverbial "double standard" to the mind of a 4 yr old?
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amother
Denim


 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:30 pm
Stars wrote:
and so?


I meant to bring across that it's not a big issue that irks me that I'm "dealing with" but rather something my sweet girl is noticing and I want to answer her the right way.
I can see how it didn't come across correctly. sorry about that. LOL
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shabbatiscoming




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:34 pm
amother wrote:
I guess I'm asking if I should explain it to her or if I should stop doing these things. does my little girl get to decide my standards? will I stop doing everything she thinks isn't frum enough? again, in a hashkafic view, not as in "I'm the mom, ur the daughter so you don't get to decide anything".

I like your explanation notshanarishona. will it be like the proverbial "double standard" to the mind of a 4 yr old?
thats something you have to decide, no? I would think that a 4 year old should not dictate how mommy gets to dress.
Do you send your daughter to a school with a different hashkafa than you practice/live? that may be why.
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imasinger




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:38 pm
Right now, she is sweet and little, and you could conceivably change yourself to make her happy.

She will not always be so little, and she will almost certainly have other comments about how you do things.

Remember that YOU are the mommy, and one of the most important things that she needs to learn in life is kibud av va'eim.

If you feel as if her comments are motivating you to change your behavior, that's one thing. Go ahead.

But if you feel as if you do not want to make these changes, then stand up strong. I know that you said "not as if 'I'm the mom, you're the daughter.'" But that's the reality. It IS that you're the mom, and she's the daughter.

The response is something like, "I take tznius very seriously, and by my and Tatty's standards, I am very tznius. Some things I'll explain to you when you are older, but you don't have to worry. Your job is to think about making sure you are doing the right thing; when you're a mommy, you can worry about your own kids. But it's not nice to tell Mommy that she is not tznius."

IOW, be reassuring but firm. Nice of her to be thinking about it, but not her department.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:38 pm
You should put her into a school that is more in line with your hashkafah. If she is already noticing these things and commenting at 4 years old, you're in for constant friction, fights and explanations that won't satisfy her.
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debsey




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:39 pm
amother wrote:
I guess I'm asking if I should explain it to her or if I should stop doing these things. does my little girl get to decide my standards? will I stop doing everything she thinks isn't frum enough? again, in a hashkafic view, not as in "I'm the mom, ur the daughter so you don't get to decide anything".

I like your explanation notshanarishona. will it be like the proverbial "double standard" to the mind of a 4 yr old?


What would be the downside of explaining it to her? Saying "When a Mommy is inside the house, she is allowed to wear PJs, according to our rabbi." If she says her Morah says otherwise, you can say that every Mommy asks her own rabbi. Some rabbis say not to wear PJs in the house, but ours says that you can.

This way, you are modeling respect for rabbanim (it sounds like this value is consistent with her school) and also explaining your reasoning. You don't want her thinking that her Mommy is doing something wrong! And you don't have to change what you do at home to fit her Morah's decisions about what is and is not tznius.

OTOH, maybe your daughter is in the wrong educational environment? Maybe you should switch her to a school where she won't hear messages that confuse her? It's difficult for a child when the school's values and the home's values don't match. If you're not going to change your behavior to be in line with the school's values (and I'm not saying you should), then this type of discrepancy is only likely to get worse. Might as well switch her now.
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Maya




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:40 pm
imasinger wrote:
Right now, she is sweet and little, and you could conceivably change yourself to make her happy.

She will not always be so little, and she will almost certainly have other comments about how you do things.

Remember that YOU are the mommy, and one of the most important things that she needs to learn in life is kibud av va'eim.

If you feel as if her comments are motivating you to change your behavior, that's one thing. Go ahead.

But if you feel as if you do not want to make these changes, then stand up strong. I know that you said "not as if 'I'm the mom, you're the daughter.'" But that's the reality. It IS that you're the mom, and she's the daughter.

The response is something like, "I take tznius very seriously, and by my and Tatty's standards, I am very tznius. Some things I'll explain to you when you are older, but you don't have to worry. Your job is to think about making sure you are doing the right thing; when you're a mommy, you can worry about your own kids. But it's not nice to tell Mommy that she is not tznius."

IOW, be reassuring but firm. Nice of her to be thinking about it, but not her department.

How can you tell a four year old that you are tznius when her Morahs or classmates are telling her that those things are not tznius? It's so unfair to put a child in this situation. I was one of those children.
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cm




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:43 pm
Children this age don't grasp nuances of religious practices very well. If she learns in school that women must wear stockings and you are not wearing stockings, then an alert child will notice and conclude that you are doing it wrong.

You can explain to her that it's ok in the house when no one else is around (if that is the standard in the home). She might not generalize that to include wearing a slip or whatever other inconsistencies she sees, so be prepared to explain repeatedly (but keep it simple).

If she picked up these ideas "somewhere," (neither at home nor at school), explain that different people do tzniut in different ways. It's hard for little kids to "get" that, but you can try.

I'm not sure why you would allow a preschooler to set the hashkafic tone of your home. It's best to select a school that reinforces what you teach at home. If the school standards are more stringent than your own, be prepared to explain "different people/authorities have different interpretations" as many times as necessary. If you choose to conform to the school standards, let that be your choice, not your (very young) child's.
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amother
Denim


 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:45 pm
I think I will explain it to her. thanks Imasinger and Debsey for putting it so well and providing an outline.

thing about schools is that none can be a perfect match. they will either be more to the right and more to the left. I can't blame the school every time there's a discrepancy, and I definitely cannot switch schools every time. rather, it's up to me to balance our personal life and school/yeshiva life. thanks ladies for the perspective.
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FranticFrummie




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 3:52 pm
It may just be that the DD does not understand the difference between INSIDE the house and OUTSIDE the house.

or...

It could be a hashkafa issue that you need to deal with. Next thing you know, she might be telling you that your tights are not thick enough, and that your sheitel is too long. What will you do then?


I remember the age that my DD decided that every single object in the house magically became muktzeh on Shabbos. She would go around telling everyone that they need to "put that down right now!", even if it was their fork. She had no concept of how a crayon was not OK, but a spoon was, or how a blech could be kept on, but I couldn't turn on the stove.

Letting a child run the house, and be the "tznius/Shabbos/loshon hara Police" is bad chinuch. They need to respect their parents FIRST. Otherwise they can turn into little tyrants, and at the same time feel very insecure because they will think that they know everything while the adults around them need constant educating.
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greenfire




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 4:52 pm
I am sure she is adorable ... what 4 year old isn't ~

what do you plan on doing when she is 15 and comes home with demands for you to do something differently ?

the way to deal now is to explain in the house it is different ... the way to deal later is to tell her she can change the rules for her own home
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kjb




 
 
    
 

Post Tue, Jul 05 2016, 5:55 pm
If you follow the standards of the school in the way you dress - and I doubt that any school insists that mothers not wear pyjamas in private in their own homes - then I would have a word with the morah about your daughter's confusion and get her to explain to the class that on matters of tznius that are not covered by the school policy mothers follow the advice of their own ravs and about the difference between public standards and what is allowed in private. I don't think any morah really intends to send 4 year olds home to lecture their modest-dressing mothers on what to wear around the house.
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