VENT. Why don't parents take care of their children?

mammala120

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 12:23 pm

amother wrote:

I'm shocked you WOULDN'T call CPS in a heartbeat if kids were in danger. Shame on you.

.
I am shocked you agree on destroying other people's families. Tell me something...... Going out the door and crossing street is not dangerous? Kids on school buses are not buckeled and so are the people using train or city bus. That's dangerous too. I definitely agree that that all kids need to be buckled for safety but to call CPS on family without knowing their background and reason or attempting to reach out over and over to parents is just plain wrong on every level.

amother

Plum

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 12:32 pm

mammala120 wrote:

Calling CPS is not ruining a family. It can be a lifesaver. Years ago I lived next to a family who frequently beat their children. One was the scapegoat and had to endure the most abusive situations. These were condos and the person on the other side was a social worker. He had to call since he was a mandated reporter. I also called. It was almost two years of repeated calls before any action was taken.

Whether you believe it or not, family reunification and rehabilitation are two of the major goals for CPS after abuse or neglect are investigated.

ETA: With CPS in most states being overburdened and under budgeted it's not likely children will be removed because a family member is not using vehicle safety devices. This is a prime time to educate the parents regarding child safety.

heidi

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 12:35 pm

mammala120 wrote:

There is never any reason, ever, for children to be unbuckled or a baby in a car seat facing the wrong way. And if the person OP talked to was horrified and explained that it had just all happened 2 seconds ago (as one early poster suggested) fine. But he shrugged her off. I'll bet anything that his parenting leaves much to be desired in many other areas.
CPS can mandate parenting classes which it doesn't sound like this man would do on his own and which may be very helpful to him.

amother

Wine

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 1:00 pm

amother wrote:

. (Look at the story in MD where the parent's chose to let their children walk home from the park and police got involved, brought kids down to the station and didn't even call the parents to tell them were they were).

Well, many feel that those parents were very wrong in leaving such young kids alone in the park without supervision and then to walk home alone. They were not so innocent.

HonesttoGod

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 1:16 pm

amother wrote:

With the exact same energy you could wish for them to be safe instead of wishing for them to be in an accident. Which makes it obvious that it's not exactly pure-hearted concern for their welfare that has you all red in the face. Stop with all the self-righteous indignation, people. Groisamomma is absolutely right. Calling CPS isn't better for the family or the child but it is so much easier for the bystander. If you really care for someone's safety there are better ways of communicating that make it more likely that they will feel your concern and hear what you have to say.

Oh I wish for them to be safe all the time. This is AFTER that. AFTER I have said something or AFTER I know they know. But they don't care.

I have had people literally tell me "oh car seats are too expensive" or "she cries in there it's not worth it" and then I am like the only way you will see your idiocy is by either having cps come down and EXPLAIN it to you or by having a serious scare and realizing it is not "stupidity" to use a car seat.

And I am the last person to have self-righteous indignation I will be the first to admit I am not 100% perfect with my carseat safety. I forward faced my second son at the age of 2. Did it bother me? yes a little but I have to balance family and safety. And this was what he needed. I have sent my kids with my husband and no car seat. I HATE it. And I wish that I could be perfect but I am not. That doesn't mean that I cannot get "red in the face" and angry about people who LET THEIR KIDS RUN AROUND THE CAR WHILST IT DRIVES ON A HIGHWAY!! Or IDIOTS who just plonk the bassinet from the stroller on the seat because "he's safe in there and its onlt a 5 minute drive".

That is CRAZY!! That is NOT caring for your safety.
I get angry just the same when people don't wear seatbelts or text and drive.

flowerpower

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 1:25 pm

Cps can be hell. I heard firsthand many stories from them. I would think 7 times before calling. The only time I would call them is when there is a lot of neglect and abuse going on there. Otherwise I would try to include the community to help them. Now regarding this situation, op did the right thing. She called the mother. She tried to show her how dangerous it can be. For others to wish they get into an accident is cruel and heartless. You do the best you can to educate others on safety. After that it is not in your hands anymore. All you can do after that is pray for their safety and that they get sechel.

LittleDucky

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 2:21 pm

amother wrote:

Well, many feel that those parents were very wrong in leaving such young kids alone in the park without supervision and then to walk home alone. They were not so innocent.

That was a different situation... They weren't that young and it was not putting the kids in clear and present danger. IIRC they were living down the street and they were about 10 years old. Some 10 year olds are mature for their age and an arbitrary age isn't worthy of a CPS case. If they were wandering the side of a busy street at 3am with no shoes, that's a different issue.

This is way different. Especially after being dismissive of education, rebuke etc.

amother

Oak

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 2:22 pm

To those who would call CPS to report unrestrained or improperly restrained children because it is dangerous, there is never ever a reason not to properly restrain children in a vehicle and not doing so is neglect, are you aware that one is not required to restrain a baby or child in a taxi, neither in a car seat nor in a seat belt? I am not arguing that it is safe. It is potentially very unsafe. (We actually bought a car that we could barely afford so we could stop taking taxis in order to keep our kids in car seats, but that's us.) Can you explain how it is specified legal some of the time but at other times the same behavior should be considered child endangerment to the degree that CPS should be called?

sky

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 2:25 pm

amother wrote:

Well, many feel that those parents were very wrong in leaving such young kids alone in the park without supervision and then to walk home alone. They were not so innocent.

Personally I think its a parent's right to make those decisions.
Its gov. over stepping its bounds to tell parent's how to parent within the law.
Its a dangerous slope for the gov to be allowed to tell you how to parent.

I have no problem letting my 10 year old walk to a local park alone (typically he goes with a group of friends and not alone, but they are all around the same age).
do you really think I should have CPS showing up at my door for that?

Please don't tell me its more dangerous now than it used to be - if you look at crime rates against kids its actually better. You just hear about it more.

Last edited by sky on Thu, Jul 14 2016, 2:43 pm; edited 2 times in total

shabbatiscoming

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 2:27 pm

Ahuvah2 wrote:

Please all read carefully the op's post. The father said nu nu. Does that conclude that he is careless?. In addition, many ties after you talk to a Rav you look at things differently. And if you ask a Rav and you follow his guldens you certainly do the right thing. Calling the cops can be an Isur of Masira

And this here is exactly why not everyone asks rabbanim everything.
Just because a rav said something does not mean he cant be wrong. Rabbanim are NOT G-d. They are infallible human beings.

amother

Oak

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 2:28 pm

LittleDucky wrote:

This is way different. Especially after being dismissive of education, rebuke etc.

I don't think he was necessarily being dismissive. "Nu nu" can be a sheepish way of saying "you're right." People I know use it that way. He didn't tell her to MYOB and he wasn't rude or reactive which is kind of a good sign. We really don't know if he ignored her or made an effort to make sure the kids were properly buckled up on their way home.

Simple1

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 2:29 pm

WOW! To actually say you wish they were in an accident, ch"vsh? I know you might be exaggerating. But I think it means this is more about you being self-righteous than about you caring for the welfare of the kids. If you cared about them, you'd pray that they DONT get in an accident ch"vsh - (odds are anyway that they won't, if everyone is driving carefully)

amother

Seashell

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 3:06 pm

Ahuvah2 wrote:

Yeah, tell that to the followers of Shabbasai Tzvi.

This attitude is dangerous. It is not the Torah way. It is stemming from Christian beliefs that have corrupted our society.

If a Rav told you to burn someone's house down while they were inside, would you listen?

flowerpower

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 3:30 pm

So there are two types of people here. One- see something that doesn't look right and call CPS asap.
Two- think 10 times before reporting another person. First try other approaches like educating both parents or trying other smart tactics

Not even ONE person here is a perfect parent. If someone sees one of your "perfect angels" doing something wrong do you want them to judge you? Unless you see a constant issue at a certain family then you can think twice. This should be a general lesson.

amother

Oak

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 3:37 pm

BasMelech120 wrote:

http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx?id=36809

You might need a heter not to call CPS.

Can each poster state whether she is responding to the specific situation in the op or to situations of clear abuse/neglect/child endangerment in general? Because they're not all the same thing and this thread's all over the place.

amother

Seashell

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 3:41 pm

flowerpower wrote:

I don't think any healthy person whips out their phone to call CPS without a really legitimate concern, and they also think carefully before they call.

The reason it may appear to be that is because this thread has evolved into a general discussion about reporting and involving CPS.

And to answer your last few words: sometimes, calling CPS is the smartest tactic.

groisamomma

Thu, Jul 14 2016, 3:59 pm

Some posters here are confused...calling CPS for this situation when the parent can be warned by you to clean up his act is overkill, especially if he does immediately begin to comply with the seat belt laws. Calling CPS when children are abused or even when there's suspected abuse is a chiyuv.

BTW I have no idea where the taxi argument comes in here...just because the safety of children is compromised in a taxi means that we can be lenient in our own cars? "Oops, sorry Officer Ploni, I thought since others put their kids in danger I can, too." Somehow I don't see that going over too well.