Is non kosher really better than kosher?

amother

Firebrick

Wed, Jul 20 2016, 12:25 pm

Except for stuff like chicken it is. Even cuts of beef are better because of the method of koshering beef. Pork is delicious especially in the form of spare ribs and bacon.

Shellfish is fantastic. Raw clams and oysters, fried calamari, cioppino with all kinds of fish, unlimited types of sushi, lobster, shrimp with cocktail sauce, real crab.

Good cheese easily found at reasonable prices and of course the prohibition against meat and dairy limits the use of butter in recipes as well as the obvious dishes in which melted cheese enhances the dish. And it also impacts baked items since parve baked goods are totally inferior in general compared to those made with butter.

And restaurants of course. Any kind of ethnic food like Kosher Chinese is dreck as compared to the good stuff. Most Chinese restaurants serve the equivalent of mall food. Think of the very worst Jewish food you have eaten and that is what kosher Chinese is to a good Chinese restaurant. And there is a whole world of interesting ethnic restaurants which are also inferior if they exist at all - Indian, Thai, Mexican. Fine dining is very limited and extremely expensive. French food is pretty impossible to recreate with its heavy reliance on butter and cream.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jul 20 2016, 1:11 pm

I knew I shouldn't have opened this thread.

WHY DO I TORTURE MYSELF LIKE THIS?

Yes, treif is way better, all the way around. There are some foods that I desperately miss, as well as the convenience of being able to eat anywhere I want. I'd kill for a Wendy's double bacon cheeseburger. It was my favorite comfort food when I was too stressed to deal with dinner, and I needed protein FAST. Pizza just isn't the same without pepperoni, either. Israeli kosher Pizza Hut doesn't even come close to the American treif version. Don't even get me started on how much I miss seafood.

The good side, is that it forced me to learn how to cook better. I've now mastered many kinds of Indian and Thai dishes, and I already knew how to cook Chinese and Japanese food. I make pretty good sushi, too. The next thing I want to tackle is Ethiopian food, but finding the spices can be tricky.

Still... *sigh* Sad

Raisin

Wed, Jul 20 2016, 1:16 pm

amother wrote:

I can't speak for non kosher animals (I grew up not keeping fully kosher but we didn't eat shellfish or pig and we didn't eat meat and dairy together) but I can say some things yes and some things no. Non kosher cheese does tend to melt better, but these days there are some kosher companies that make cheeses that rival the non kosher kinds. Kosher meat and chicken isn't really different, but since they're salted, you don't need as much salt when cooking, if you go according to recipes, you may end up overstating, but if you get the seasoning right, it's not different. Other than that, I don't think there's much difference. One thing that's sad though is that hands down, kosher restaurants do not compare to non kosher in terms of good service. I'm embarrassed when I eat out with relatives, they notice the difference and always complain about it, no matter how amazing the food was.

Most kashrus authorities do not allow the hind part of cows or lambs to be used, this is the best part of the meat. Most kosher beef is tough and needs long and slow cooking.

amother

Red

Wed, Jul 20 2016, 1:28 pm

Raisin wrote:

Most kashrus authorities do not allow the hind part of cows or lambs to be used, this is the best part of the meat. Most kosher beef is tough and needs long and slow cooking.

That's true, but I was talking about comparable cuts. Yes, the best parts are the parts we can't eat, but they're not typical fare for secular people. Tenderloin and leg of lamb are expensive and typically used for special occasions, not the average weeknight dinner. In terms of the same cuts that we would use, there's little difference except for the salt, wh8ch is easily remedied.

yo'ma

Wed, Jul 20 2016, 1:45 pm

amother wrote:

This I heard second hand, through my dh. He works with meat/cows. They only use the top half and the rest goes directly to the non kosher part of the factory. My husband said the non jews don't really eat much of the top half. The non jews there said that the kosher meat is softer than the non kosher when it's the same cut because of the way the cow is killed, the cow is more relaxed the kosher way. Like I said this is heard second or third hand.

Ilovemaryland

Wed, Jul 20 2016, 2:23 pm

Fascinating thread, in the kosher restaurants, particularly the burger joints I patronize in Baltimore, often I see more non-jews than jews eating there...

In many out of town communities, kosher places can't survive without non-jewish business..

Amarante

Wed, Jul 20 2016, 2:30 pm

Ilovemaryland wrote:

Sometimes there is a perception that kosher food is healthier.

I remember the ad campaign some years ago forHebrew National Franks which had a voice stating all the questionable stuff in treif hot digs and then a voice pointing upwards and a sonorous vice saying - we can't because answer to a higher authority.

I don't see many non Jews frequenting kosher restaurants unless in the company of Jews. The price for comparable food is so much higher.

Last edited by Amarante on Wed, Jul 20 2016, 2:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

Miri7

Wed, Jul 20 2016, 2:30 pm

Yes you can get kosher meat that is the same quality as non kosher of the same cut.

Restaurants are an entirely different experience. There are very few kosher restaurants in the world that compare to the best restaurants in any major American city. Kosher options have a captive audience and typically cannot rival the best of non kosher restaurants. With the new "foodie" movement there is an explosion of amazing restaurants that we can't eat in.

And kosher food is just plain more expensive with more limited options. While great kosher cheese is available it is far more costly than non kosher of the same quality.

FranticFrummie

Wed, Jul 20 2016, 5:31 pm

yo'ma wrote:

Hey, my DH is in the meat business too! Is your DH a shochet, or does he do bedikas?

Mine is a shochet, he's constantly appalled at how hard it is to get good meat in Israel, compared with America or Great Britain.

amother

Violet

Wed, Jul 20 2016, 8:34 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

FF, dunno where you live just wanted to share with you in case it's helpful... there's a store in Boro park that sells all types of exotic and hard to find spices, maybe they can help you get your Ethiopian foods challenge underway...

Tzion
3802 13th ave
718 436 6510

amother

Lemon

Wed, Jul 20 2016, 9:05 pm

A while ago I heard on the radio that $200 a plate restaurants were getting violations - they found all kinds of horrible things in the back unclean mice trappings etc. Im not saying all the Kosher places are perfect but at least we have mashgichim

gp2.0

Wed, Jul 20 2016, 9:30 pm

What's the question...of course anything is better with cheese and butter. I would love bacon. What's not to love?

I made a dairy cake recipe once for my DDs birthday. It was delicious, but the buttercream was so rich I felt sick after one slice. I was kind of surprised people can eat it regularly. So at least kosher food tends to be lighter.

But omg, some kosher food is clearly BAD and the non-kosher version can't possibly taste that awful. Exhibit A: pareve eclairs.

Many foods are possible to make in kosher versions except they're very rare. That's what frustrates me most.

DrMom

Thu, Jul 21 2016, 2:28 am

gp2.0 wrote:

I made a dairy cake recipe once for my DDs birthday. It was delicious, but the buttercream was so rich I felt sick after one slice. I was kind of surprised people can eat it regularly. So at least kosher food tends to be lighter.

I don't think people who don't keep kosher eat buttercream frosting "regularly."

WRT parve desserts: I actually don't see the point in eating these at all.

Iymnok

Thu, Jul 21 2016, 2:53 am

In the city I grew up in, they convinced authentic Chinese, Thai and Indian restaurants to become kosher since they were vegetarian anyway.
I'm always disgusted by the so-called Chinese food that many frum Jews eat.
Why don't they do this elsewhere?

rachel91

Thu, Jul 21 2016, 4:28 am

Yes, certain foods are much better. I ate completely not kosher till the age of 12.
I do not think, that people who eat non kosher gain more weight, or weigh more in general or that kosher is helping me stay healthy. In my opinion one doesn't have anything to do with the other.