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Baby crying for 2 hours in bed.Do I take him out?
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amother
Firebrick


 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 12:34 am
I don't think CIO is ok. Rabbi Klerman and rabbi orloweve (I think that is how they spell their name) are very much against it. Read their books.
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agreer




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 1:49 am
You can't just decide to try something! There has to be a method!

I'm very into Weissbluth's CIO (rapid extinction).

For naptime, it's one hour, max. After that, you pick up baby and try again.

Most of the blogs I've read say start with nighttime sleeping.

To the PP - which books by R' Klerman/Orloweve are you referring to?
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Bruria




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 3:22 am
Please don't let your baby crying for that long! Like others said, 2h is an eternity at this age!
I imagine you might be feeling overwhelmed, if that's the case ask your mother or another family member to help you out so you can get some sleep.But don't let your baby cry for that long!
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Iymnok




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 3:29 am
amother wrote:
I don't think CIO is ok. Rabbi Klerman and rabbi orloweve (I think that is how they spell their name) are very much against it. Read their books.

Rav Orlowek says not to do it before 11 months. OPs baby is older than that.
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momofone613




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 4:18 am
I know its hard because your sooo tired and u just need a break and sleep. Been there done that.

First u need to get a babysitter for a few hours so u can sleep un interrupted!

Then, you ask your pediatrician for advice on what sleep method is good fir this age, and get a step by step explanation and follow it.

I wouldn't let the baby cry 2 hrs alone like that again. What's done is done tho, just move forward.

Good luck!
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pond user




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 5:31 am
I'm crying for this poor baby. I graduated university with a first class degree in early childhood, I have read hundreds of books on methods of raising healthy children and NOWHERE does it say it is ok to allow a child to CIO (and for 2 hours????). I don't understand ANY of these methods. As a parent, you need to be able to use you gut intuition and listen to your child. If you struggle with that, please attend parenting classes whereby a trained councillor will advise you based on your child's individual needs.

There is no book that will ever exist that could advise you how to raise your child. Each child is so different. I understand reading self help books if you are able to dip in and out and use what works for you, but in this type of incident I would go as far as to say these books are dangerous.
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momofone613




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 8:06 am
Your assuming she didnt go in the room during those 2 hrs. It could be she did go in!

Regardless, I think by now she gets it. She shouldn't let her baby cry for 2 hrs... I dont think she needs anyone else to say it.

She is tired, and therefore not thinking correctly. I'm sure she's not the only one who has been so tired that shes done or said something that was wrong.

Just saying.
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gp2.0




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 8:23 am
OP I want to hear more about your baby's schedule. What time does he go to sleep at night, what time does he wake up in the morning, what time does he take his 45 minute nap?

He should be getting a total of 11 hours at night (10-12 hours at night is within normal range) and 2-3 hours during the day, divided into a morning nap and afternoon nap. As he gets older in about six months he'll be able to skip the morning nap and just take one long 2-3 hour nap.

Approach this logically. Before you try any methods for HOW to get him to sleep, figure out WHEN he needs to sleep. The problem is, an overtired baby will scream and scream and not go to sleep. Been there, done that. By my first baby I had NO IDEA that she would wake up at 8 am and be ready for a nap at 9:45. So I wouldn't even try putting her down for a morning nap until 11 and she'd cry and wouldn't nap well.

The best way to sleep train a baby is to cut out nursing sessions one at a time over several weeks, as another poster said. It's a better idea to start with night sleep training instead of daytime sleep training because it's a better idea to cut out one or two nighttime feedings instead of daytime feedings. If you cut out daytime feedings, your child will be hungrier at night and won't sleep as well.

You mentioned a bottle (what's in the bottle?) but you didn't mention if you are supplementing with food at this point and that's a factor as well. If you feed too much carbohydrate-laden food like cereal, your baby will be full and won't nurse enough, but the carbs aren't as filling as nursing. Protein and fat finger foods or small amounts of fruits and vegetables are better choices.

Feel free to PM me, I did a ton of research on this while going through it with my first baby and my experience the second time around was a world of a difference.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 8:43 am
By now op surely knows that she is a terribly cruel mommy with a heart of stone, no clue how to care for a baby, and her poor unfortunate children are destined for ruination. And that everyone on imamother is a better parent than she is.

Seriously, you can all stop now. I'm pretty sure she got it.

OP I can guarantee you that all the sanctimoniously perfect imamothers calling you cruel and making you feel stupid did not magically know exactly what to do when their first child wouldn't sleep either. Guaranteed. It is frustrating, confusing, and so freaking exhausting!!! We ALL made mistakes, some of them bad ones. It's ok. You can fix it and your child will not be ruined and you are not stupid or cruel. Because there is so much conflicting advice out there about babies and sleep as demonstrated on this very thread, the best idea would be to speak to an experienced mother that you know in real life and get some information and advice. Pick one person, just one. If their advice sounds informed and balanced and resonates with you then try it. If it doesn't find someone else. If you ask a bunch of people at once you will get overwhelmed and confused and feel horrible about yourself needlessly.

There is more than one "right" way to deal with babies and sleep so you don't have to look for that one perfect way. Just something that works for you and your baby. Please ignore the mommy shamers and don't let them make you feel bad about yourself as a parent. They may not have done this thing but they've all done something that someone else could shame them for, if that someone else were insecure and mean enough. Babies are resilient and you can try something else tomorrow and keep trying until you guys figure it out.
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chavs




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 9:31 am
amother wrote:
By now op surely knows that she is a terribly cruel mommy with a heart of stone, no clue how to care for a baby, and her poor unfortunate children are destined for ruination. And that everyone on imamother is a better parent than she is.

Seriously, you can all stop now. I'm pretty sure she got it.

OP I can guarantee you that all the sanctimoniously perfect imamothers calling you cruel and making you feel stupid did not magically know exactly what to do when their first child wouldn't sleep either. Guaranteed. It is frustrating, confusing, and so freaking exhausting!!! We ALL made mistakes, some of them bad ones. It's ok. You can fix it and your child will not be ruined and you are not stupid or cruel. Because there is so much conflicting advice out there about babies and sleep as demonstrated on this very thread, the best idea would be to speak to an experienced mother that you know in real life and get some information and advice. Pick one person, just one. If their advice sounds informed and balanced and resonates with you then try it. If it doesn't find someone else. If you ask a bunch of people at once you will get overwhelmed and confused and feel horrible about yourself needlessly.

There is more than one "right" way to deal with babies and sleep so you don't have to look for that one perfect way. Just something that works for you and your baby. Please ignore the mommy shamers and don't let them make you feel bad about yourself as a parent. They may not have done this thing but they've all done something that someone else could shame them for, if that someone else were insecure and mean enough. Babies are resilient and you can try something else tomorrow and keep trying until you guys figure it out.


As much as I agree with not shaming other mothers, I didn't actually see any shaming here but concerned mothers, for a baby that was not treated right and the op needed to be told. Op came here for advice and was given it. I hear what you are saying but this isn't about shaming but about a baby that was left to cry for two hours! It's not ok to normalise that!
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amother
Coral


 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 10:04 am
chavs wrote:
As much as I agree with not shaming other mothers, I didn't actually see any shaming here but concerned mothers, for a baby that was not treated right and the op needed to be told. Op came here for advice and was given it. I hear what you are saying but this isn't about shaming but about a baby that was left to cry for two hours! It's not ok to normalise that!

There's a way to convey that it's not ok to let a baby cry for 2 hours that doesn't shame the mother. She was told she doesn't know what she's doing (duh! she clearly knows that, she came here for some advice), she has a heart of stone, she's cruel, there were lots of question marks ???? and exclamation points !!!!! and ALLCAPS and lots of condescension (I graduated university with a first class degree in early childhood, I have read hundreds of books on methods of raising healthy children and blah blah blah.) All of that makes the posters feel better about themselves and the op feel worse and is not the only way nor is it the better way to tell someone that what they are doing is not good for their baby. She's not cruel. She's new at this and she's exhausted and she came here for some advice. So just giver her the advice she is asking for without all the condescension and yes, shaming.
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chavs




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 10:19 am
amother wrote:
There's a way to convey that it's not ok to let a baby cry for 2 hours that doesn't shame the mother. She was told she doesn't know what she's doing (duh! she clearly knows that, she came here for some advice), she has a heart of stone, she's cruel, there were lots of question marks ???? and exclamation points !!!!! and ALLCAPS and lots of condescension (I graduated university with a first class degree in early childhood, I have read hundreds of books on methods of raising healthy children and blah blah blah.) All of that makes the posters feel better about themselves and the op feel worse and is not the only way nor is it the better way to tell someone that what they are doing is not good for their baby. She's not cruel. She's new at this and she's exhausted and she came here for some advice. So just giver her the advice she is asking for without all the condescension and yes, shaming.


I'm gonna go ahead and disagree with you on ask counts. Not knowing what you are doing means that you ask before you ask, it means that you can use your common sense! It means you can get a book (they were written because ppl don't always know). It doesn't mean that you leave a baby for 2 hoursto cry. Let's take this seriously and not shame but try to convey the message that this was not OK by far!
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sourstix




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 10:26 am
Op never came back. For all you know she might have never read the responses. Maybe she did but never responded.
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amother
Coral


 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 10:31 am
chavs wrote:
Not knowing what you are doing means that you ask before you ask, it means that you can use your common sense! It means you can get a book (they were written because ppl don't always know).

And there you go. Your unspoken words are what kind of a moron are you? Don't you have common sense? Exclamation point.

Anybody wondering why we haven't heard back from the op in a while?
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mummiedearest




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 10:33 am
op, I had one of my kids cio for two hours. everyone is telling you it's a terrible thing to do, but some kids need it.

you should not just plunk the kid down and let him/her cry for two hours, though.

I had to schedule feedings FIRST. my baby wasn't sleeping because she nursed too often and wouldn't get full enough to sleep a full stretch. so I had to be very consistent with nursing times for a few days. after that, I had to work on the naps. a child who doesn't sleep enough during the day is unlikely to sleep well at night. and yes, I let her cry it out for the nap times. I did not go in to check on her/comfort her. if I did, she would have started the whole process all over again. once we had naps solidly in place, I worked on night sleeping. and yes, we let her cry it out. the whole training process took two weeks of crying it out, but the crying for long stretches was only for the first couple of days.

if you are sure you've taken care of all your baby's needs before putting him down to sleep, crying it out can work very well. don't let everyone tell you you're cruel and terrible. I used it with that baby because she was incredibly difficult and I couldn't do it any other way. I had one baby who trained himself, and another who did well with me coming to comfort her at intervals when sleep training. go with your gut.

good luck!
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amother
Firebrick


 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 10:42 am
pond user wrote:
I'm crying for this poor baby. I graduated university with a first class degree in early childhood, I have read hundreds of books on methods of raising healthy children and NOWHERE does it say it is ok to allow a child to CIO (and for 2 hours????). I don't understand ANY of these methods. As a parent, you need to be able to use you gut intuition and listen to your child. If you struggle with that, please attend parenting classes whereby a trained councillor will advise you based on your child's individual needs.

There is no book that will ever exist that could advise you how to raise your child. Each child is so different. I understand reading self help books if you are able to dip in and out and use what works for you, but in this type of incident I would go as far as to say these books are dangerous.

I agree. I don't understand how did this whole thing start. Nobody can tell me that it is ok to let a baby scream in the dark. A friend of mine told me once you start doing it with one child you can't stop because it is so convenient especially with families with a lot of kids. I don't think it is allowed by Halacha. A mother has to answer her baby's cries. Hashem yerachem. I see kids who are so cruel and I think it stems from this. Their heart is hardened by this experience. I'm not judging anybody. Mashiach needs to come fast.
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Kangeroo




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 10:43 am
Further to our discussion on helping babies sleep better with regard to OP's reaching out for advice, and the immense amount of sleep books and sleep philosophies from CIO to co-sleeping/attachment parenting, I have been wondering about this for a for a long time - Do we have a mesorah for this in the Torah? Are there any medrashim or aggadoth or commentary that discusses this age old issue about babies/very young children and sleep?

My husband and I did find one reference in Bereshis (Torah with Rashi- The Saperstein Edition) about babies/young toddlers although not specifically about sleep with regard to Yitzchak Avinu when he was weaned: Bereshis 21:8. Rashi comments on "And he was weaned". He says he was weaned at the end of twenty-four months. And in Bereshis Rabbah (53:10, Kesubos 60a), it comments on "And he was weaned.". That is to say "And he was weaned" rather than "She weaned him.". The Gur Aryeh and Sifrei Chachamim say that this is the age at which babies naturally reject breastfeeding - at 24 months.

And from this reference, what can we glean about how Sara Imenu nursed Yitzchak Avinu from birth to 2 years Wink (or even after 2 years)? How did she manage his sleeping and nursing both at night and during the day? Did she sleep with him? Did she have to teach him to sleep by himself nearby in another bed or crib-like structure?

What are your thoughts?
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MrsDash




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 11:05 am
Some of these anti cio posts here make me want to Puke

The funniest point made was that it's more "convenient" Rolling Laughter
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MrsDash




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 11:07 am
amother wrote:
I agree. I don't understand how did this whole thing start. Nobody can tell me that it is ok to let a baby scream in the dark. A friend of mine told me once you start doing it with one child you can't stop because it is so convenient especially with families with a lot of kids. I don't think it is allowed by Halacha. A mother has to answer her baby's cries. Hashem yerachem. I see kids who are so cruel and I think it stems from this. Their heart is hardened by this experience. I'm not judging anybody. Mashiach needs to come fast.


I heard hitler was a cosleeping baby. Guess we better stop doing that too!
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chavs




 
 
    
 

Post Fri, Jul 22 2016, 11:24 am
MrsDash wrote:
I heard hitler was a cosleeping baby. Guess we better stop doing that too!

I think most ppls issue's here, is going from a baby who is fed on demand and to sleep, to being left for + two hours. A lot of posters wrote they did cio but that this is clearly not the way!
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