How could this happen?!

chaiz

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 1:29 pm

5*Mom wrote:

Rebbe positions are open to literally anyone, no training required. The personal investment in time and money required to become a credentialed teacher would filter out at least a percentage of potential abusers who are looking for easily accessible victims.

I thought in Israel even in the boys' schools the teachers need to have some sort of credential. I know of a few men who went/are going to gain teaching credentials.

5*Mom

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 1:43 pm

chaiz wrote:

I thought in Israel even in the boys' schools the teachers need to have some sort of credential. I know of a few men who went/are going to gain teaching credentials.

Nope. Outside of the mamlachti system, schools are free to have their own requirements or none at all. Kudos to individual rebbeim who are investing in professional development and to any individual schools that are requiring or sponsoring it.

sky

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 1:44 pm

amother wrote:

Which cheder is this?

As far as I know there was just one. if it is the one I'm thinking of they don't anymore its under totally new ownership.

We know a boy who went there who was never hit because his parent's didn't let. But as Maya said - seeing it happen affected him so deeply. Its terrorizing to kids to see other children hit even if they were never hit themselves. He is in his 20s and it left major scars.

debsey

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 1:46 pm

sky wrote:

Yes, it's the one you are thinking of. It is currently under new management, and I understand the policies are different now (my oldest children are in high school now, so we are going back quite a few years).

Didn't post the name, because what's the point? They no longer allow physical punishment at all. Not going to besmirch the name of the new management.

chaiz

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 1:49 pm

5*Mom wrote:

Does that include mamlachti dati?
I guess it is a good thing I only have a daughter right now because I will most probably send to the mamad school, not sure about the boys' school.

5*Mom

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 1:55 pm

chaiz wrote:

Does that include mamlachti dati?

Mamlachti dati schools are public schools. They are under the auspices of the Ministry of Education and there are strict policies and protocols for just about everything, including teacher credentials. Also discipline protocols, safety protocols, protocols for releasing children during school hours ...

DrMom

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 2:30 pm

nursemomma wrote:

At the risk of being Banging head

, I would like to offer another perspective.
The article truly saddens me, and is an unfortunate tragedy. However, blaming the Cheder system ain't the answer. We are in galus, and yes, abuse- physical, emotional and s-xual, is rampant. In our communities, as well as in the world at large. How many public school teachers have been arrested for rape? Or physical abuse?
While our community does have a large problem of covering up for perpetrators, there is a much greater awareness today than years back. Abuse is an epidemic in our galus; no one is safe (and that includes chassidim, MO, litvish etc. ) Don't kid yourself that your children are safe because you exchanged one lifestyle for another. We all need to be alert and aware to keep our families safe.
May we all find peace and safety for our families with the coming of moshiach very soon Hooray

This is a pathetic attempt to whitewash a horrific crime. To shrug off the abuse of children as "gee what can you expect; it's inevitable. We're in galus!" is disgusting. The moshiach's tardiness is not to blame for adults physically abusing innocent minors.

And I can tell you (like 5*Mom and heidi said), that parents at our local mamlachti dati school are *very* involved and *very* vocal about what goes on in our school. They go ballistic if the grass is cut 2 days late; there would be a *lynch mob* at the principal's office if a teacher laid a hand on a student.

rainbow dash

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 2:49 pm

willymom wrote:

for now I only have girls..I hope things will have improved by then..in defense of the cheder it is world better than it used to be and most rebbes are ok..but there are still some sickos..

Sorry to burst your bubble but its been happening in the 80' the 90's and 00's. I highly doubt that it will change. Just learn all you can about protecting your kids.

amother

Teal

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 3:00 pm

nursemomma wrote:

At the risk of being Banging head

, I would like to offer another perspective.
The article truly saddens me, and is an unfortunate tragedy. However, blaming the Cheder system ain't the answer. We are in galus, and yes, abuse- physical, emotional and s-xual, is rampant. In our communities, as well as in the world at large. How many public school teachers have been arrested for rape? Or physical abuse?
While our community does have a large problem of covering up for perpetrators, there is a much greater awareness today than years back. Abuse is an epidemic in our galus; no one is safe (and that includes chassidim, MO, litvish etc. ) Don't kid yourself that your children are safe because you exchanged one lifestyle for another. We all need to be alert and aware to keep our families safe.
May we all find peace and safety for our families with the coming of moshiach very soon Hooray

We are in galus, but it is OUR job to be metaken so Mashiach can come!

Re the bolded - this is the whole point!! In public schools, the abusers are reported and arrested and the victims generally get the support they need to heal.

In the chassidish system, they are covered up, abusers are free to spread their abuse to however many more victims they get their hands on, and the brave people who report them are torn to shreds by the community!

Abuse happens in every community. No one says otherwise. But the difference is - how does the community RESPOND when it happens??

debsey

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 3:02 pm

willymom wrote:

for now I only have girls..I hope things will have improved by then..in defense of the cheder it is world better than it used to be and most rebbes are ok..but there are still some sickos..

I hate to break it to you, but girls are abused in school too. Shaming, purposeful isolation of one girl in the class, harsh berating, public, humiliating punishments - those are also abusive and they happen in girl's schools. Being humiliated in front of the whole class can be just as devastating as being hit.

amother

Dodgerblue

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 3:20 pm

debsey wrote:

I completely agree. I went to an extremely frum (and well known/respected) bais yaakov elementary school. The principal was dictator. Loved the students whose fathers footed the dinner bill and hated the students whose fathers couldn't. She was absolutely merciless in her attempts to humiliate and degrade the students she didn't like.

Unfortunately I was one of them. She called every mother in my grade and told them LIES about me so they would not allow their daughters to befriend me. She yelled at me daily, in front of crowds of students, for whatever was upsetting her that day. She constantly degraded me, called me a [gentile], told me she doesn't think any things going to become of me. I can't even repeat all the stories that went on there, but they would make your blood boil.

And it wasn't just me. There were a number of us in the grade. A handful are no longer frum and all of us suffered long term effects from her.

Why didn't my parents take me out? Good freaking question. Partially because she knows how to butter things up around the parents and parents don't always take what their kids say at face value. Many parents (like mine) also didn't want the stigma & questions associated with changing schools.

I want to believe that now that we're the adults & we're the parents, we don't stand for this nonsense anymore. I would scream this from the rooftops if I could-- DO NOT SEND YOUR CHILDREN TO A SCHOOL WHERE THEY WILL BE PHYSICALLY/PSYCHOLOGICALLY OR OTHERWISE HURT.

Last edited by amother on Sun, Jun 28 2020, 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

amother

Teal

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 3:37 pm

debsey wrote:

This happened in my (chassidish) school. Girls still shudder when recalling the things my principal did. She abused her power and we were terrified of her.

The older generation mothers did nothing. She was the principal; who were they to complain about the way she disciplined?

A few years ago the younger mothers started getting together to get rid of her. They petitioned the school dean, reported the horror stories their girls came home with, called again and again, and threatened to leave - and the school finally fired her.

You cannot imagine how significant this is. They NEVER fired anyone, even people clearly unfit to teach. And this principal was practically part of the furniture, with all the old school teachers backing her.

But the parents are the ones paying tuition. They got together and put pressure on the administration. They made it clear that they would not tolerate having an abusive principal.

And it worked.

Change comes from within. If all chassidish schools knew that parents have zero tolerance for abuse, and would not hesitate to put pressure and be prepared to pull their kids out, they would change their tune really fast. Right now, one of their main weapons is the helpless compliance of the parents who keep sending there because "we have nowhere else to go."

amother

Maroon

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 5:05 pm

sourstix wrote:

chasidishe schools today do have social workers. mine does. and I know of quite afew. oh they are not worth a lot. but thats a separate issue.

I second the above. My dds are in a chassidishe school in Monsey. There is a social worker there and I actually had my daughter meet with her several times to discuss an issue. The principals are dedicated and warm and most teachers reflect their positive attitude.
I do think, though, that parents play a huge role. My daughter once had an issue with a teacher and I advocated for her. The principal was very supportive throughout. When parents aren't involved at all, the principal may only hear the teacher's side and not give the child the necessary support.

amother

Slategray

Wed, Aug 03 2016, 8:54 pm

I wish I knew which school that was. I went to a school where one girl was severely humiliated. not to mention she was an out of box type but what the principle did to this kid is unconscionable.

She is no longer there has moved to another country. and woaw are people relieved. she was part of the furniture. and we couldn't get rid of her bec "she had so many tzaros in her life" and she is part of that chasidus. everyone kind of had rachmanus on her. so they allowed her to continue. so now she is a teacher in another school in another country. I hope she is better then she was here.

I wonder how you can get support from other parents if a teacher or rebbi is abusive and you wont tolerate it. so you call up a parent and complain about the teacher/rebbi? and what if this parent isn't having issues you call more parents? and what if I am the only one complaining? now I am the neb of the class. the only one complaining. how has that helped me? all I know is that ds had an abusive rebbi this year. and I never called the other parents I had no relationship with them. so I was alone in it. ds has encopresis and social issues. I didn't want him to go to others houses with his problem. so he wasn't able to make relationships. it was a horrible year. to say the least. bh I am behind it. now moving forward to a different school that is a lot better,.