DD, 13yo, doesn't want to fast.

sped

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 1:04 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I'll try having her go an hour at a time.

She has always been super empathetic. When she was little, I had to constantly stop her from giving all of her toys away, because other kids could easily convince her that they "needed them".

Even now, she has a friend from school who is extremely poor, and she would bring extra lunch so this girl would have what to eat. She always did it in a way that would not embarrass the girl, and say things like "Oh no, my mom gave me this stuff again. I really don't like it, do you want it?" or "I had a big breakfast and I'm not hungry. Why don't you take it?" She had a whole range of things she would say, so that it never looked like charity or pity. If DD didn't pack enough for herself, she would come home really hungry, and raid the refrigerator. I tried to pack double lunches whenever I could, so they both would have enough to eat.

I just need to tell you how impressed I am, not just by her worrying about her hungry friend, but the incredibly sensitive way she does it. What a special girl!

amother

Bisque

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 1:44 pm

Although it seems there's no actual halachic principle of shiurim on Tisha B'Av, my Rov gave me that psak a couple of years ago, because my doctor was concerned that fasting could trigger a certain condition I get sometimes, which can eventually become dangerous.

So he said that for a choleh mamash he would say just eat, but here where it's preventative he suggested shiurim (I.e. less than a shiur).

However last year being a nidcheh he told me I can just eat.

Not that all this necessarily applies to FF's DD. I would say if you have a Rov or principal or mechaneches IRL who knows her and her challenges well, you might get some good advice.

debsey

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 2:37 pm

Like other posters before me have said,
To deal with the anxiety, have her only commit to an hour at a time. If she does decide to eat, make sure she will only eat shiurim, because she certainly shouldn't be eating anything pleasurable.

I'd paint a picture of the incredible feeling of achievement she will have once she's done the fast, how proud she will be of herself, how she will have added a brick to rebuilding the Bais HaMikdash.

One of the reasons we tend to have such a lavish post-fast meal in our family is to encourage the intermediate age fasters - all the little kids look at the treats and wish they could have them, but they are only for people who fasted. We serve all sorts of danishes, fruit juices, nice bread and rolls, cheeses, ice cream, and soups. It's meant to encourage the 13-19 crew, who have a harder time with the meaning of the fast, but enjoy being part of the "big people" who break the fast.

I'd make each hour she has fasted into an achievement. She will wake up in the morning already having fasted 8 hours or so! Wow! And then each hour is another accomplishment.

I'd also talk to your LOR about shiurim and about how to educate her about them.

Iymnok

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 2:47 pm

I Find that the hardest part about fasting is the anticipation.

Prepare well beforehand. The last meal before the fast, seudas shlishit this year, eat helpful foods.
Almond butter
Grapes
Pasta
Grape juice (it's Shabbos so it's okay)
LOTS of water for a few days prior

Take the pre-fast pills or drops. Kalei tzom or tzom kal.
I have drops that I find work way better, pele tzom. I think it's a strong homeopathic remedy. Two drops four times the day before the fast. The easiest 9Av while pregnant, I didn't feel hungry till the next day.

After chatzos, she can learn about the geula.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 4:04 pm

I started talking to her about the fast tonight, and I could immediately see her anxiety kick in. I told her that we were going to have a big dinner, and that she could sleep as late the next day as she wanted. I told her that after she wakes up, we'd take it one hour at a time.

She said "What will you give me?" and I told her that I was not going to bribe her to do a mitzva. I said that she was a big girl, and what she did now was between her and Hashem. She said "OK, but can I have ice cream afterwards?" and I said "sure!". She said she might need to drink some water, and I said just give it your best try. She seems really OK with it now.

debsey

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 4:15 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

FF, why not reward her? "She MiToch She Lo LiShma, Ba LiShma" If a reward is what will help her get through it, why not? But I wouldn't use a humongous reward, more of a "celebration of progress" kind of thing, like "we will go on a shopping trip to Store X and choose a (small) prize, and the whole time, we will be thinking 'wow, DD is so incredible! She did something incredibly difficult, and this (small) token will be to remind her what a determined person she can be."

So let's say she chooses a charm for a charm bracelet that makes her think of the fast and how she achieved it, or a costume jewelry bracelet - something that can serve as a reminder of her achievement.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 4:20 pm

debsey wrote:

Irony of ironies, I'm a jewelry designer, and DD hates jewelry! She doesn't like anything "fussy".

She came up with the reward of ice cream, so I'm going with that. I don't want to encourage her to be manipulative, and I want her to see the reward in her own satisfaction, not for a material gain. I would bribe a younger child, but I think it's time she started thinking in terms of "doing the right thing", instead of "what can I get for it."

debsey

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 4:27 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

I think ice cream is perfect! It's not a huge prize but it's a treat, and the biggest satisfaction is knowing it is earned. Funnily enough, DS had to make an unpleasant call today - he had to apologize to a teacher whom he felt he wronged (his own idea) and when we talked about how nervous he felt about making the call, what he is going to say, etc, I asked him what will make it easier? He said - can we go out for ice cream after? And of course I agreed. I don't look at it as a bribe because I was not trying to persuade him do anything, more of something to look forward to once the difficult task is done.

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 4:30 pm

debsey wrote:

Awww, what a sweet boy! Tell him "anyone can make a mistake, but it takes a real man to apologize." Very Happy

Mrs Bissli

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 4:51 pm

As a parent of a teenager, I can really sympathise. What seems to work with my 14 yr old is we take it little by little, the prospect of 25hr fast is quite daunting. I always tell her she can always quit or gave a small amount of water if she really can't take it. She also has a number of 9 Av buddies, last year a group of her friends were texting back and force complaining but at the same time supporting one another. In a way 9av is a bit easier than Yom kippur. She watched the Pianist in the afternoon. (Although it's my personal gripe that 9av gets invaded by holocaust related talks and films ). Best of all, I tell Mt children to sleep in as late as they wish (which teenagers have absolutely no objection )

Last edited by Mrs Bissli on Sun, Aug 07 2016, 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

FranticFrummie

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 4:56 pm

Mrs Bissli wrote:

As a parent of a teenager, I can really sympathise. What seems to work with my 14 yr old is we take it little by little, the prospect of 25hr fast isn't quite daunting. I always tell her she can always quit or gave a small amount of water if she really can't take it. She also has a number of 9 Av buddies, last year a group of her friends were texting back and force complaining but at the same time supporting one another. In a way 9av is a bit easier than Yom kippur. She watched the Pianist in the afternoon. (Although it's my personal gripe that 9av gets invaded by holocaust related talks and films ). Best of all, I tell Mt children to sleep in as late as they wish (which teenagers have absolutely no objection )

I hear you about the Holocaust movies. My grandmother was a survivor, and I still can't watch anything Holocaust related, or even look at pictures, without getting all kinds of triggered. DD is so sensitive, I don't think she could handle it either. She knows all about the history, but the images and stories are so horrific, it's just too much to bear. Crying

ra_mom

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 6:07 pm

Speak to her and see why she doesn't want to. Give her tools like drinking lots of water for two days prior, taking kal tzom, lying down, taking it easy and reading age appropriate Jewish history books. And tell her you'll help her and you won't let her get to a point she can't handle.
Calling an understanding Rav to explain the situation, hearing his thoughts prior, and then bringing dd with you to speak to him could be a great learning experience. She can express her worries, he can tell her when you feel x or get to point y, you can break your fast. She'll realize that nobody wants to make her fast to a point she can't handle and whatever she does accomplish she will feel proud that she still doing her part in tisha b'av without feeling down about it.
We had the most loving rav and rebbetzin on our block growing up and the rav absolutely loved when the kids had questions. When I wanted new sneakers during the 3 weeks, when I wanted to color on chol hamoed, my mom took me to him and he always found ways to be lenient or explain things in such a gentle way. I always left feeling great.

Raisin

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 6:53 pm

I think a food related treat like ice cream is a perfect way to celebrate completing a fast.

Good luck!!!

So happy that 2 of my biggest complainers will be away at camp for tisha b'av. LOL

(although still able to text and phone)

debsey

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 8:24 pm

FranticFrummie wrote:

Awww, what a sweet boy! Tell him "anyone can make a mistake, but it takes a real man to apologize." Very Happy

I told him - he liked the quote, especially since I googled it and printed it out with appropriate graphics.

Your DD sounds exactly like my DS, only a bit older, of course (DS is 11). It has been a long, hard road to get him to this point, where he felt guilt about an outburst he had with his private learning rebbe, decided on his own he needs to apologize, and decided to call, with very little parental involvement (other than me pointing out that guilt implies the need to apologize, and then you feel much better) Honestly, without parenting classes and lots of professional help, we'd never have gotten this far.

and the ice cream tasted VERY good......

amother

Aubergine

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 8:46 pm

amother wrote:

Something that I don't see others mention. If she does break her fast she will need to make herself havdallah before eating.

I'm pregnant and was told not to fast and I need to make myself havdallah before I eat.

Thanks for saying this. Last year I was told not to fast tisha b'av going forward but I didn't remember this part for this year.

rydys

Sun, Aug 07 2016, 9:29 pm

I have always had a hard time fasting. As a teen the day seemed to go on forever even with books. I used to make myself a countdown chart with boxes at 15 minute increments. I started at 12 hours but usually slept past that point. Then, I would check off a box every 15 mintues. It seemed to make the day go faster.