Would you tell dd that she isn't as talented as she thinks?

amother

Red

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 12:45 pm

Dd is 10 years old and has social issues. Her camp had a talent show yesterday, and she was so excited because she has two talents (in her opinion)- art and disguising her voice. At least she didn't try singing, because she's REALLY horrible at that, and she thinks she's great at it. But she is not good at these things either. She drew some pictures for the show, and they looked like they were drawn by a five year old.

On the one hand, it would be sad to tell her that her pictures are really not good and she sounds weird when she tries to disguise her voice. But on the other hand, it's not a great idea to let her embarrass herself in public either. She is socially kind of clueless, so she probably wouldn't notice if people find her to be strange. That's a good thing because her friends usually find her to be strange. They will think she's weird even if she is not part of the talent show. I can't think of any other talents she could have shown off. When she came home, she did tell me that someone else also did art and the other girl's pictures were much better than dd's, but that was because she took art lessons.

So should I have told her not to join? Would her feelings have been less hurt if she hadn't joined, and would it have taught her something important about herself if I had hurt her feelings?

amother

Red

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 12:56 pm

Stars wrote:

NO
her self esteem will suffer enough if she has social issues, theres no need for you (her mom!!!) to knock it down even more!

That's what I thought. But one of her teachers thought I should tell her that she can't sing and when the class davens, she should whisper so the other kids won't make fun. She tends to sing very loudly and extremely off key. I completely disagreed. But I sometimes still wonder...

I wish there were social skills groups in our area. Unfortunately, I don't think there are.

amother

Powderblue

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 12:57 pm

No need to tell her at 10. If at 18 she's still talking about making a career out of it, then sure, discuss reality (even sooner). If she wants to try out for the school choir in high school, then yeah, temper her expectations. No need to be a Debbie downer at this point, it sounds like life is hard enough for her. Be encouraging, and try to find something she IS good at that you can nurture.

imasinger

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 1:06 pm

What they said.

With this caveat. Social skills classes would probably be helpful to her, but they might not help her see when her work is not as good as others her age.

OT might help her fine motor control, thus improving her artwork.

If she wants to improve at art or music, give her the gift of lessons. Voice lessons can definitely help her sing on key. She will improve and feel good about that. (And maybe be on a closer par with her peers). And who knows? If she works really hard at something, she might become a star. It has happened many times. Success is 99% perspiration, and 1% inspiration.

Does she have a diagnosis? If not, please get her evaluated, so she can get help.

For her sake, and for yours, can you list the things that you think she IS good at, even if it's not a conventional talent? My heart hurts for this little girl right now.

.

amother

Oak

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 1:10 pm

Why not give her voice lessons to boost her up? People can be trained to sing well she will learn the proper breathing techniques and how to use her voice to sing and it will definitely help that if she is not amazing she won't be so bad.

You
Don't need social skills group to help her she needs to learn skills. You can give her art lessons too. Usually the people that end of being great in things are the ones that work hard at being good at it and not the natural nlones because a lot of the skills are trial and error and working hard to improve.

sourstix

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 1:12 pm

why do social skills only get taught in group form?. why not go to a therapist that deals with social skills? is that not around?

if she is unaware of what she sounds like then let her sing into a recorder and let herself be heard. that might give her a clue what she sounds like. but if she has no social skills she might not pick up on it either. so I do think she needs social skills training. btw is she lacking friends? does she not connect with others? I think to diagnose someone you have to have a cluster of issues that point in that directions. not just one. because then it can just be attention seeking.

btw I think that teacher is disgusting! what a way to bring a message across?! and she wants you to talk to your daughter this way? I am so shocked. who knows how she speaks to the girls if this is how she speaks to a parent. again and again I come across these mechanchim that have no business being in chinuch. why are they there? they have no clue what they are doing? its just too painful to see this. watch out how she treats your daughter. have an open conversation about how the teacher deals with stuff. this might be more of an issue then your daughters issue. sometimes teachers can aggravate an issue that might just need some help. but their way just makes things just so much worse. sorry you have to deal with this.

Last edited by sourstix on Wed, Aug 10 2016, 1:20 pm; edited 2 times in total

amother

Mustard

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 1:26 pm

In terms of singing in class, the teacher can ask everyone to sing a bit more quietly, making it about the volume.

I second lessons. Dd with social skills issues loves to sing. It turns out she's very good at it, when trained and instructed about what choices to make. When she decides on her own, though, she doesn't self evaluate well, and doesn't sound good.

I don't think I would tell her if it was her career path (but I also wouldn't over-build her up). We've had an enough trouble with the amount I've stepped in over grooming issues.

Rachel Shira

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 1:43 pm

Of course there are things she's good at. Not everyone is or needs to be talented in the arts. I agree with imasinger that it's important for you to pay attention to what she's capable of, for both of your benefits.
Is she good with little kids? Does she like to help you bake or cook? Set the table really nicely? Have a knack for math, read really well, or particularly interested in and know a lot about a random topic?
I think she's too young for a real dose of reality but you can have little conversations about how everyone has different talents and abilities, and tell her how you're not so good at _____ but you are good at _____ and talk to her about what you think she's good at (and in a gentle brainstorming kind of way, could ask her what she thinks she isn't as good at).
And since she's aware that the other girl takes art lessons and drew a better drawing, you can talk about how if we're not so good at something but want to get better at it, we can learn how, and see if she wants to take an art class. (I'd be more hesitant about offering voice lessons because it sounds like after a few lessons, even if she didn't improve, she would think she did, and I don't think that would be a service to her. There's less embarrassment at stake with art. But maybe I'm wrong about that).

amother

Fuchsia

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 1:44 pm

I really feel for your daughter, having been the weird kid in my class at that age. Whatever you can get her in the way of voice lessons, art lessons, or social skills classes can only help, IMO.

At the same time, as somebody with an ear for music (post-training), I find it very difficult to concentrate if others are singing off-key or off-beat. That could be really tough for some of the girls in your daughter's class, and I think they do have a right to kavana during davening. If there's no good way to ask her to lower her volume, I would stress voice lessons over the art lessons.

Amarante

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 2:08 pm

Absolutely you should not burst her bubble. When she wants to apply to Julliard, then perhaps. 😀🎙🎙

Terrible for a teacher asking children not to sing. Part of the charm of watching children is that they aren't perfect but still enjoy. Why take away the joy for a prettier event. I remember how badly children felt who were told by teachers not to do sing.

I second the idea of giving her lessons in art, singing or whatever else she enjoys doing. Yes there is talent but there is also stuff that can be learned and why do people have to be good to enjoy something. I lack physical grace but enjoyed my dancing classes and my art lessons gave me an appreciation for art although I am not talented now and wasn't then. I went to a class that alternate drawing and visits to a museum to sketch which was a good way to learn about art. I also took piano which gave me an appreciation for music although I was certainly not close to concert material although I am sure my parents enjoyed the end of year recital when I played a Sonatina or whatever I had spent effort learning.

As for social skills,condo think these can definitely be learned and this is very important. Some people have more difficulty picking up social cues. We all recognize those people as they awkwardly interject themselves or make odd comments. Generally they are quite nice people but ther inability to read the people they want to schmooze with circumscribes their social lives. Also, they will probably have problems with even standard jobs let alone those which require one to interact effectively like a therapist, teacher etch

Fox

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 3:43 pm

agreer wrote:

NOOOOO!

You are supposed to build up your child!

Let the rest of the world knock her down.

Usually I'm part of the let-the-chips-fall-where-they-may, don't-create-a-special-snowflake school of parenting. Here, though, everyone has a separate and distinct job.

Hopefully I won't depress anyone with this story:

When my oldest DD, a"h, was hospitalized once, she had a roommate who was in a persistent comatose state. The child's mother, however, continued to talk to the girl, telling her about all they things they had planned for when she woke up. Of course, this drew every social worker in the building: obviously the woman was "in denial" and needed their help in facing the reality that her DD was unlikely to emerge from the coma.

I'll never forget what she said to one of these social workers: "I understand where you're coming from, ma'am, but what you're talking about is not my job. It's the doctors' job to be realistic about what's going to happen. I'm the mother. It's my job to encourage my baby no matter what."

Sitting on the other side of curtain and hearing that made a huge impression on me.

Yes, the teacher needs to figure out a way to handle off-key davening, whether that means suggesting voice lessons, finding another desireable role for your DD, or just telling the other girls to grin and bear it.

However, OP, that is not your job. If you have suggestions, I'm sure the teacher will be grateful, but don't take responsibility that is not really yours.

The world has plenty of art and music critics, and they should do their jobs, too. As others have said, there's usually a greater latitude given to kids, but at some point, most of us get unequivocal feedback about our shortcomings.

Continue to encourage your DD, and emphasize that artistic expression is about more than just pleasing other people. Anyone with a hobby could probably buy a "better" example of whatever she does, but that's not the point. It's all about the process, not the final product.

That said, homemade sock monkeys are not usually an appropriate wedding present.

amother

Red

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 5:27 pm

Thanks. I figured the responses would lean in this direction. I'm glad I didn't say anything.

The next question is how to conquer my own embarrassment when watching her make a fool out of herself. Like when she's with friends and she talks too loudly and often in a high pitched voice and she says things she thinks are funny and laughs really loudly at her own "jokes".

Or at school performances when she sings louder and more off key than anyone else.

She does have likely diagnosis, though it's not PDD as I would have thought it should be.

amother

Wheat

Wed, Aug 10 2016, 6:47 pm

I'm struggling with how to answer this. I was a weird kid with weird habits, and thought I was good at things I was not. I would have been destroyed if my parents had told me, but on the other hand I was an outcast at school because of these problems. I think I would have benefited a lot from lessons, where I'd either get better or probably not enjoy it (because of not being good at it), give up and find something better to do that I was better at. If I'd been taught social skills and behaved in more appropriate and mature ways then I would have not had such a hard time at school and been bullied.

So, I would recommend not directly pointing it out, but finding ways to help her build social skills, give her lessons in art and singing, and keep an eye out for things that she really is good and gently steer her into doing those things.