Poor middle class | Imamother

gp2.0

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 2:03 pm

LiLIsraeli wrote:

I find this hard to believe because as soon as you have a certain amount of assets (including savings), and it's not a very high number, you no longer qualify for programs.

If you hide your money under your mattress, the government doesn't know about it and you still qualify for programs. Of course, this is again trading long-term financial security for short-term financial security because the money isn't FDIC insured.

There are all kinds of sketchy ways to save money under the table. Many of them involve money laundering which is its own parsha. But even if they don't involve money laundering they're never as secure as FDIC insured savings accounts...

cozyblanket

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 3:11 pm

OP, it definately sounds stressful.

I think the best thing for you to do is to get a good hold on your budget and your expenses.

I know you can't move now because you have nowhere to go. Can you cut out cleaning help or at least decrease it? (I know many would think that is terrible to suggest, but I work outside the home and am a busy mama and I usually don't have cleaning help, except as a treat about twice a year - maybe your kids can help out? If everyone takes on little more housework and you don't care about the house looking like no one lives in it, then it is totally doable. I would also love to have it and I dream of having money for it, but I don't). Do you have memberships? subscriptions? Do you have smart phones with data plans? We don't, but if you do, you can get a normal phone and have a cheaper cell phone bill. Vacations are a luxury. You can take the kids on cheap or free day trips. Cut out anything with car rentals, motels, expensive indoor fun zone thingies, etc.). Buy clothes at consignment shops. Have a handmidown system with friends. Go to uniform gemachs. ONE pair each of shabbos/weekday shoes per child!! There are soooo many ways to keep expenses down. Yuntif meat isn't a requirement. Get one little cheap meat for one meal and no meat the rest of the meals. Make hair accessories don't buy them. That will entertain your kids too so it doubles as an activity! Go to everydollar.com to get your budget under control. If you do this, you will find there is more money available than you realize.
Wishing you parnasa and nachas always!!

out-of-towner

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 8:39 pm

Chaya123 wrote:

Thanks for all the replies.
Yes, HUD can be very lucrative especially when not earning too much income and having more children. I was just speaking to my sister last night who has her ENTIRE monthly rent covered by HUD. How should that make me feel? I'm slaving away day in day out just to pay what she gets covered without sweat. And to top it all off, I used to have this and blame myself for losing it but that's a sep issue. How can I not be negative and sad about this?
Regarding moving, yes we have considered it many times but for various reasons, it's not really an option right now as we have nowhere else really to go.
Yes, I'm thankful I have the capability to work BH, however after working so hard for so many years, it's difficult not to feel what I have lost and what could've been mine...
And yes, I did have money for vacations while on programs, which I absolutely have none of now. As it is, I paid my children's daycamps with many head checks, while others qualify for CHS and get it for free, here we go again...

Umm, unless you are referring to something other than Section 8, this does not make sense. Section 8 means that you are paying a third of your income in rent. If it is covering all of her rent, then may I suggest that perhaps your sister is not being 100% honest about her earnings.

That said, I understand where you are coming from OP. I am finishing school, and until I was done I had to be careful that my husband's income would not exceed the threashold for Medicaid, because otherwise we would not be able to sustain ourselves while I pursued a higher education, with which IY"H I will be able to help support our family. However, I have a BIG problem with you referring to the programs as "lucrative". Lucrative is going into a feild where you can charge $300 an hour for your services, or buying something that is particularly in demand at a low price and selling it for much more. Relying on tax money isn't lucrative, it's being given a handout. It may be one that you deserve, but it is a handout nonetheless. Now in my case, I was relying on these handouts in the hopes that in the future I could make a larger contribution to society by way of a higher paycheck and by the services that I hope to provide to people in this country. But while it can be easier to live off of government programs, they aren't lucrative!

amother

Burlywood

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 9:40 pm

You can try to be less rude by saying "may I" but actually her sister can be 100% honest and this can still be true. Section 8, like all gov't programs has rules which don't apply to the real world

1) unearned income such as scholarships don't count as income even though you report them
2) there is a standard deduction per child. so if you have 8 kids, a chunk of your income doesn't count at all

This is just two examples. Yes, its irritating, but those are the rules. If you are on gov't programs while you work your way through school, you should apply for as many scholarships as humanly possible for this reason alone.

amother

Taupe

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 10:30 pm

well, I just went on "vacation" and used my food stamp card while I was there! Seriously, just because someone can get away does not mean that they are rich. I was in a dilapidated mouse infested bungalow that a relative let us use for a few days. So, my neighbors might think that we are well off, going up to the mountains and all while it's really quite the opposite. Sure it cost us gas and tolls but that's about all. If you saw me in the the grocery upstate discreetly swiping my food stamp card did you think that I was living in a summer home and taking advantage of the system? My point is that you never know and can't judge what other people are doing. Before I got on to food stamps a few months ago, life was harder! Can't say it's a breeze now ...it's not! OP, you are not alone! Many of us are struggling. My kids schools keep calling since we owe thousands in tuition. I really don't know what we will do! Parnassah is so hard .... it amazes me how some people just seem to have the funds for everything (camps, summer homes, home improvements, vacations, music lessons for kids, nice clothing, shoes and shaitels etc.) while others struggle to cover the basics. I have a shut off notice for my gas and electric. I have to pay one of my kids backyard day camp tomorrow - how??? What will be???? I really don't have answers but OP, you are not alone (I don't qualify for HUD either - never did).

Chaya123

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 1:46 pm

Thanks for all the responses. There are many individual factors that go into each person's situation. The point isn't to bash or dissect, just to sympathize and give chizuk, which I appreciate those who did.
I wasn't kicked off of HUD for not being eligible, although they were giving me very low amount by time kicked off. I was kicked off for other reasons, and the whole parsha was, and still is, extremely painful for me, as yes, this was a very lucrative program for us and now we need to wonder every month how we are going to pay this unaffordable, exorbitant, ridiculous rent, while those around us assume we have HUD as they all do.

farm

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 1:50 pm

Chaya123 wrote:

Chaya123, it would be a lot easier to sympathize with you if you stop using the word lucrative. That is just a really distasteful way of looking at public assistance! You can say it was very helpful, very fortunate, very welcomed. But lucrative means profitable. Public assistance is not there for you to profit and that's a horrible, entitled, offensive attitude.
And who cares if those around you assume you have HUD? Really- why does that make your situation any different?
May you be blessed with an abundance of parnassa.

sky

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 2:01 pm

farm wrote:

lucrative = producing a great deal of profit.

If someone gets 2K in HUD then I would think it is pretty "lucrative".

watergirl

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 2:10 pm

farm wrote:

\
Maybe she doesnt know what"lucrative" means? I keep thinking the same thing you are.

Op, from your last post, with the vague comment about loosing HUD, painful experience (I'm sorry to her that), and the jealousy that you are feeling, combined with the fact that you openly stated that you had money for vacations - I am thinking that you were somehow wrapped up with a money related scheme of some sort, something illegal, and now you dont have it? So you stayed in the same HUD house that was way above your means, and now you have to pay for it? From the things that you are saying, it really seems like you arent understanding that its meant to be a stop gap - not a permanent solution to life.

Please correct me if I am wrong here.

Also, you said before that you HAVE to stay in your house because you have no where else to go. I cant say thats ever true. I have moved many times. Sometimes a place is too much money, so you go somewhere else that you can afford. There are always other, cheaper places. You may have to look out of Lakewood, or in a different area of Lakewood. But we all have choices in life, and if you TRULY can not afford where you live, you may have to make a choice.

amother

Forestgreen

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 3:01 pm

sky wrote:

lucrative = producing a great deal of profit.

If someone gets 2K in HUD then I would think it is pretty "lucrative".

If you live in an area where rentals are expensive HUD benefits are indexed accordingly. Some people can find apts or homes (depending where they live) where a HUD voucher will cover their entire rent. Others aren't so lucky and may have to pay the difference between what HUD will cover and what the rent is.

Factually, folks on HUD vouchers never see the money. It is directly deposited in their landlords accounts. Personally I don't see HUD payments as lucrative, the money spent on rent that is supplemented by HUD will just go to other living expenses.

sky

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 3:03 pm

watergirl wrote:

Profit is something that you KEEP. Money from HUD was never yours to begin with.

She kept her HUD money so it was hers. The gov't decided to give it to her. The system currently is they decide who to give it to and don't look to get people off.

It doesn't have to be a scheme. Getting kicked off HUD is as simple as laying out a large amount of money one month for a group gift and then getting paid back at one time and depositing the money at once and it appearing that you earned all that money at one time. Or so I've been told by those on HUD.

When I bought my house I was denied a first time home buyers mortgage that I was very obviously eligible based on our combined income. We had gotten a one time work related gift\bonus shortly before applying for the loan and it skewed our income. It was a tremendous loss, and upset me very much. But had nothing to do with shady business or hiding money that caused me to lose it. To think so is really looking at situations with a "bad eye."

Quote:

Factually, folks on HUD vouchers never see the money. It is directly deposited in their landlords accounts. Personally I don't see HUD payments as lucrative, the money spent on rent that is supplemented by HUD will just go to other living expenses.

But that money is freed up for other living expenses.

Last edited by sky on Fri, Aug 12 2016, 3:04 pm; edited 2 times in total