What's with all these siyums during the 9 days?

amother

Pumpkin

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 4:36 pm

Im always bothered that our religion seems to have lots of loopholes and ways to get around things.....in my neighborhood it seems that there is a siyum just about everyday this week. It seems tons of men go and participate. I never really understood the point of not having meat (while having yummy milichig food) but it seems this halacha is almost pointless and so many just get around it.

ra_mom

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 4:50 pm

I honestly don't know people who may siyums. This year was the first time that someone I know mentioned that her husband had a siyum coming up so they scheduled it one evening during the nine days. Otherwise, everyone else I knows eats dairy and parve Smile

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 5:19 pm

Another area of Halacha in which the men found a loophole so they can have their steak and wine, but nobody can think of anything to help lighten the women's laundry loads...

amother

Lime

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 5:23 pm

Not just steak, but wine tasting too!!! Why do the rabbanim allow this? Some of these bbqs and wine tastings are run by established organizations. We're missing the point if we just find ways to do what we are not supposed to be doing.

pointyshoes

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 5:23 pm

amother wrote:

Another area of Halacha in which the men found a loophole so they can have their steak and wine, but nobody can think of anything to help lighten the women's laundry loads...

Depends on your rav. I'm allowed to wash my clothing because I'm cooking and taking care of kids. I can wash my kids clothing too

amother

Wine

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 5:27 pm

amother wrote:

Another area of Halacha in which the men found a loophole so they can have their steak and wine, but nobody can think of anything to help lighten the women's laundry loads...

No siyums in my area, and my rav is very makpid on nursing mothers not losing their supply (so no fasting for me this year). There are some areas (get refusal) where the religion is very skewed towards making mens' lives easier- I wouldn't argue that the 9 days are among them, at least not in all communities.

amother

Periwinkle

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 5:28 pm

amother wrote:

The rabbanim are participating. I saw a photo of a rebbe sitting at a table with wine, making just such a siyum so he can drink it.

And "swimming" is not allowed, so camps and day camps make all these extra special activities, most of which anyway involve water.
There is something wrong with this entire mindset.

amother

Turquoise

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 5:38 pm

Chabad has siyums every day during the Nine Days (including Tisha B'Av), but we don't eat meat or drink wine anyhow.

A siyum is a permissible way to increase in joy during these days, so we make sure to use the opportunity!

amother

Ginger

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 6:09 pm

amother wrote:

Another area of Halacha in which the men found a loophole so they can have their steak and wine, but nobody can think of anything to help lighten the women's laundry loads...

I have to admit, these things really, really bother me. I wish the whole system of determining halacha and rabbinic leadership had been egalitarian from the start.

greenfire

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 6:14 pm

never understood this either ... what is the point unless this was an honest siyum that just happens to have fallen out during the 9 days or for an aliyah or something real

not just because you want to eat meaty

maybe we should make a siyum to swim What

gp2.0

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 6:48 pm

I don't really get it either. But I am a huge fan of religious loopholes, no matter who benefits.

I saw a parody that went something like this:

Everyone complains about not eating meat during the 9 days, but I don't think it's so bad at all.

Day 1: Eat meat Friday night
Day 2: eat meat on Shabbos
Day 3: eat meat at my nephews bris
Day 4: I'm making a siyum, come join me!
Day 5: eat meat at my cousins pidyon haben
Day 6: Wednesday is always pizza day
Day 7: refrain from eating meat - it's the 9 days after all!
Day 8: eat meat Friday night
Bonus day 9: eat meat Shabbos

So what's the big deal? If you really can't forgo meat for just 1 day you have a problem, my friend.

amother

Ginger

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 7:31 pm

gp2.0 wrote:

I don't really get it either. But I am a huge fan of religious loopholes, no matter who benefits.

For me personally, the reason it bothers me is because somehow there are loopholes for almost everything men want and need, yet when it comes to women, so many times, there's nothing to talk about and it's just "suck it up, this is halacha, we can't do anything about it, sorry."

tigerwife

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 7:36 pm

amother wrote:

It depends where you're coming from. In more 'heimish' circles, women are exempt of most fasts, from going to shul, etc. I don't see why making a siyum is an exclusive loophole for men; I remember back in summer camp we made a fleishig siyum for finishing tehilim (or something like that).

amother

Ginger

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 7:46 pm

tigerwife wrote:

I'm coming from very rw yeshivish circles, and sometimes I feel like women got the raw end of the deal. We can break with tradition when it comes to supporting men in kollel, but the women still have the traditional role of housework and childcare. But of course, we can't break with tradition when it comes to giving women more equality in communal and halachic matters. It is the woman who goes out in the world to school and work, (and takes care of the kids, cooks, cleans, and supports her family), but we cut out pictures of women in the newspapers because 'kol kevudah bas melech pnima.'

I usually don't care. But sometimes I do wonder at the whole system, that somehow manages to convenience men so well and saddle women with so many burdens.

amother

Honeydew

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 8:22 pm

amother wrote:

You said it, ginger.
And that is why after a Shana rishona in kollel, I told dh "No.Way."
We now have a healthy, balanced marriage in which we split and share all housekeeping, moneymaking and childcare. Its not split equally but we both pitch in with all of the above

amother

Pumpkin

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 8:42 pm

amother wrote:

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/150597/jewish/Siyum-During-the-Nine-Days.htm

explains why we do siyumim in 9 days

But who are we fooling? The dozens of men that see the siyum advertisement in the local paper aren't really showing up in an effort to share in the simcha of the person who completed something and is now making a siyum. They are showing up for a good steak.

Lets try an experiment next year. We'll advertise 2 siyum in the local paper. The first one will detail all the steaks, ribs, liquor, and whatever else these men are eating at these parties and the second advertisement will say a siyum is taking place, there will be homemade cake, fruit and soda. Then we'll compare the attendance of each. Any predictions?

amother

Babypink

Thu, Aug 11 2016, 8:54 pm

tigerwife wrote:

In boys overnight camp , a siyum is made every night of the nine days and a fleishig meal is served for supper