Cannes Mayor Bans Tznius Bathing Suits at the Beach

sweetpotato

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 12:50 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-.....hisFB

"The mayor of Cannes in southern France has banned full-body swimsuits known as "burkinis" from the beach, citing public order concerns.
David Lisnard said they are a "symbol of Islamic extremism" and might spark scuffles, as France is the target of Islamist attacks.
France is on high alert following a series of incidents including July's truck attack in nearby Nice.
Anyone caught flouting the new rule could face a fine of €38 (£33).
They will first be asked to change into another swimming costume or leave the beach.
Nobody has been apprehended for wearing a burkini in Cannes since the edict came into force at the end of July.
This is not the first time that women's clothing has been restricted in France. In 2011 it became the first country in Europe to ban the full-face Islamic veil, known as the burka, as well as the partial face covering, the niqab.

..."

Even though the articles are all referring to this style of bathing suit as a "burkini," it's really no different than tznius bathing suits/shvimkleider that many frum ladies wear (myself included). The only difference is the religion of the woman inside the suit. Horrifying.

Telling women what they can and can't wear in public is the antithesis of secularism. (Not to mention how much safer it is to be fully covered at the beach, which is what all dermatologists recommend as a first-line defense against skin cancer.)

debsey

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 1:38 pm

sweetpotato wrote:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37056742?utm_content=bufferb0be7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer%3FSThisFB

Telling women what they can and can't wear in public is the antithesis of secularism. (Not to mention how much safer it is to be fully covered at the beach, which is what all dermatologists recommend as a first-line defense against skin cancer.)

I love these inherent contradictions secular/liberal people get into when they try to legislate religion away. You know better than women what they should wear? Wait, that makes you sound like.....an imam. If people are free, they are also free to wear what they want.

mummiedearest

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 1:40 pm

sweetpotato wrote:

That is true, but besides for a few extra inches of neck exposure, there's nothing different between a modest bathing suit like this and what they are calling a "burqini"

http://seasecret.biz/beach-mod.....diago

agreed. it would be interesting to see if people there see something more clothing-like as less threatening.

Amarante

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 1:43 pm

Not defending the action of banning clothing - just another reason we should be thankful for judicial activists who expanded Free Speech to include symbolic speech - I.e. clothing and other non-verbal communication.

That said, there is a HUGE difference between the suits that sweetpotato sent us to and the burquinis. The "modest" suits resemble street clothing that is worn by many secular women - I.e. tunic and capri length leggings. As an aside, I wonder why these are acceptable as swimwear but not for every day street wear among frum women. They seem more practical and comfy and modest than skirts. No one can look up your skirt when walking up stairs and one doesn't have to worry about modesty while sitting.

There is no way that the burquini isn't immediately recognizable as a symbol of religion. I am not supporting banning clothing unless it is dangerous. For example, I thought the claim of a Muslim woman to be photographed for license in full veil to be ridiculous - how is that an ID? :-) The women look slightly ridiculous dressed in that manner at the beach but that's aesthetics and if we were banning based on aesthetics I would first start with portly Russians in Speedos :-)

debsey

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 1:58 pm

Amarante wrote:

There is no way that the burquini isn't immediately recognizable as a symbol of religion. I am not supporting banning clothing unless it is dangerous. For example, I thought the claim of a Muslim woman to be photographed for license in full veil to be ridiculous - how is that an ID? :-) The women look slightly ridiculous dressed in that manner at the beach but that's aesthetics and if we were banning based on aesthetics I would first start with portly Russians in Speedos :-)

There was a story in my news feed once about a morbidly obese woman arrested for indecent exposure at a beach, because her belly covered the lower portion of her bikini. Ummmm.....if that's even anatomically possible, please don't wear the bikini! I'd ban that!
LOL

simcha2

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 4:06 pm

[quote="hotmom"]And older and obese woman should be banned from the summer skimpy dress wear. It's gross! Puke

[Just/quote]

Seriously??? If you feel that people not wearing tznius clothing is gross, fine. But to call people who are created b'tzelem Elokim gross, what is wrong with you? it is contents like these that lead to eating disorders and unhappiness.

Maya

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 4:40 pm

hotmom wrote:

And older and obese woman should be banned from the summer skimpy dress wear. It's gross! Puke

We can see why you'd think that, given your screenname, but thankfully people have the right to wear whatever the heck they want without first consulting hot moms everywhere to see if they approve.

nicole81

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 5:57 pm

hotmom wrote:

And older and obese woman should be banned from the summer skimpy dress wear. It's gross! Puke

And some might argue that people who are insulting should be banned from opening their mouths. But fortunately, and sometimes unfortunately, we have little control over what other people choose to say and do with their own bodies.

debsey

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 6:38 pm

nicole81 wrote:

And to bring it back to the OP, that's generally a good thing!

MrsDash

Fri, Aug 12 2016, 7:07 pm

hotmom wrote:

And older and obese woman should be banned from the summer skimpy dress wear. It's gross! Puke

What's even more disturbing is that someone else actually "liked" this comment. Also wanted to note that when people have certain screen names that are trying too hard usually indicates that they are the opposite. Just sayin'.

DrMom

Sat, Aug 13 2016, 2:35 pm

Ridiculous.

"France is responding to the demand by some Muslims that Frenchmen adhere to Muslim practice; last week, after the association Smile 13 organized a swimming event near Marseille in which swimmers would be restricted to covering their bodies from head to knee so as to avoid offending Muslims who might attend, the mayor of the town banned the swimming day for women."

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Also:

"Cannes Mayor David Lisnard issued an ordinance in late July that banned swimwear that didn’t respect 'good morals and secularism."

Hey lady, show some more skin! Don't you want to display good morals?

Amarante

Sun, Aug 14 2016, 11:04 am

Tit for tat is silly. I am not sure which side is sillier.

Sequoias observation is quite interesting. If I recall correctly and it's been awhile seen I read on up the subject, the French do seem to make much more if a government effort to self consciously preserve our French culture. Didn't they legislate against the use of non French words? And are you they the only Western European country to have attempted to ban head scarves in school?

I worked for a company owned by a huge French multinational and the clash of cultures between the French executives who were sent in and the somewhat rednecky workers of a blue collar Los Angeles suburb were interning to say the least since both cultures thought the other was inferior :-). My office window overlooked the spot where furtive smokers gathered outside and the French were the only executives who smoked.

DrMom

Sun, Aug 14 2016, 1:08 pm

sequoia wrote:

Laïcité is not exactly secularism -- it is more than that. It's an important part of French culture, and in that sense "good morals" may mean fitting in or at least trying to.

I just find it ironic that topless bathing is fine but covering up is a crime.

Furthermore, prosecuting people for not "fitting in" sounds like communism.

marina

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 12:32 am

Amarante wrote:

I'm going to take that in the best way possible.