Non religious wedding poem in Binah

BayMom

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 2:11 pm

amother wrote:

Ashkenazi men of most backgrounds don't own a tallit until they're married, even if they've borrowed one for an aliyah in shul. The tallit is usually a gift from the kallah, who has presumably had even less contact with tallitot. So she thought it looked nice in the package and handed it to him like that, not realizing there was a tag? Big deal! It's a funny story that people will tell this couple's kids be"H in years to come.

Ashkenazi men don't wear a tallis at their wedding. They start wearing one after their wedding. So this chosson is presumably Sephardi, in which case he should have owned a tallis before the wedding.

imasoftov

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 2:22 pm

BayMom wrote:

Ashkenazi men don't wear a tallis at their wedding. They start wearing one after their wedding. So this chosson is presumably Sephardi, in which case he should have owned a tallis before the wedding.

I've seen ashkenazim put on a new tallit at their wedding.

imasoftov

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 2:23 pm

debsey wrote:

I think the levity at what is meant to be a solemn occasion (in her circles) is what she was reacting to.

How could I find out which communities have solemn weddings so in the unlikely event I get invited to one of theirs I could regrettably have a previous commitment?

DrMom

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 2:29 pm

BayMom wrote:

Ashkenazi men don't wear a tallis at their wedding. They start wearing one after their wedding. So this chosson is presumably Sephardi, in which case he should have owned a tallis before the wedding.

At virtually every dati Ashkenazi wedding I gave attended (including my own), the kallah presents her chattan with a new tallit.

DrMom

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 2:29 pm

Double post.

Hmm... we also has a celebratory chuppah. I wonder if some dour ignoramous was watching our chuppah and was inspired to write a clumsy condescending poem about us.

Last edited by DrMom on Mon, Aug 15 2016, 2:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

dancingqueen

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 2:31 pm

cbsp wrote:

True. That is why I'm puzzled by the reaction I'm seeing here. She's commenting on the part that makes it a kosher Jewish wedding - it's like they took the fluffy feel good parts but forgot the actual kiddushin.

It sounds like they made the brachot. What was missing?

debsey

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 2:35 pm

dancingqueen wrote:

Are weddings not joyous occasions in some circles? Honestly asking.

Joyous before the kallah is covered by the veil and after the glass is broken, but serious up to that point. The actual chuppah ceremony is a pretty serious thing - you're making a life commitment in the sight of the Shechina.

amother

Smokey

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 3:23 pm

This wedding sounds quite traditional to me. I think the author should see the pictures I saw of the Jewish couple who got married this past Saturday evening- yes, that would be on Tisha B'av, and started before Shabbos ended - where they served bacon appetizers. THAT could be something to be sad about - not the wedding she described.

amother

Green

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 3:32 pm

I am as RW as they come, and I was also a bit surprised when reading it. I don't think she was davka being condescending, just a bit naïve. If she would have been talking about an intermarriage, yes that's a churban. The fact that there are so many non-frum jews is also a churban. But the fact that non-frum jews make such weddings? big deal.
At least they had a chuppa. I actually asked my DH after reading it if all non-frum weddings have a chuppa- he said in EY they have to. (I am curious how it is in America?)

I wish someone would write a poem about some of the crazy, ostentatious, over-the-top weddings in America. Seems some people totally forget that we're in galus.

debsey

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 3:38 pm

amother wrote:

I think her point was the "Galus of the Shechina" concept (which a materialistic wedding would be just as emblematic of!) The idea that the actual chuppah part, which is holy, was treated with levity.

But you could write the exact same poem on an over the top wedding as well. I totally don't see any condescension in the poem. I think she was shocked (probably this was out of her normal realm of experience) and expressing that shock and sadness via the poem.

amother

Lilac

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 4:46 pm

No, we don't know the exact background etc of the wedding hosts, but come on, how can you not see that it was over the top to compare it to the churban.
It was a fully Jewish wedding, NOT an intermarriage. Based on the description, it followed basic halacha, even if it didn't conform to accepted Orthodox customs/standards of celebration.
And yes, I can see why readers found the ending offensive. It is nowhere near the scope and tragedy of the churban, where people died or were enslaved and lost to the Jewish people forever. How could you possibly compare the two?

Amarante

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 4:58 pm

amother wrote:

As far as I know every person who identifies as Jewish in some way has a Chuppah and breaks the glass. They may serve bacon or lobster but they would have this as part of the ceremony. And I am really just kidding about the bacon and lobster. In general, and his can anyone speak except generally since no one goes to every wedding 😀, patently non kosher foods like lobster aren't served even though the meat might not be kosher and dairy is served at a fleishig meal - I.e., the cake might be made with butter and cream is served with coffee. Reform Jews do consider themselves to be Jewish.

sequoia

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 5:04 pm

All but one of the weddings I've been to have been secular.

1. There is always a chuppah, breaking the glass, dancing with the chairs, etc.

2. There isn't pork or shellfish,

3. There is separate kosher food available. At every secular wedding there is a table or two of frum relatives.

4. The kallah may change into a more revealing dress for the party, but she is covered up for the chuppah.

5. The chosson and male guests wear kippahs.

6. The ketubah may or may not be read. Depends on the crowd.

7. Everyone has a good time, including the black-hat relatives.

greenfire

Mon, Aug 15 2016, 5:09 pm

DrMom wrote:

At virtually every dati Ashkenazi wedding I gave attended (including my own), the kallah presents her chattan with a new tallit.

and some actually use the new tallis as the chuppah ...

DrMom wrote:

Hmm... we also has a celebratory chuppah. wonder if some dour ignoramous was watching our chuppah and was inspired to write a clumsy condescending poem about us.

it was I who hugged you ... just in case it should be true